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Remington Model 700 Accidental Discharges

Discussion in 'Remington' started by SwedeSteve, Oct 20, 2010.

  1. Mooseman684

    Mooseman684 G&G Newbie

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    Daniel Boone...apparently you did not read my Post as to the cause being the floating connector as the problem. I have been Gunsmithing for over 30 years so I feel very qualified to state that the problem is REAL and also that not everyone takes their rifle apart to clean it , but old oil residue and debris like spruce needles etc. are only part of what compounds the problem of the floating connector in the trigger pack . 2% failure rate is 20,000 for a million rifles which is Remingtons figures for UNTOUCHED Trigger packs ! And if dirt and debris cant get in the trigger system , why clean it ? The fact is I have torn many a 700 down and found all kinds of stuff and dirt in the trigger assy.
     
  2. big shrek

    big shrek G&G Evangelist

    Remington has bought themselves a permanent headache due to the fact that they didn't want to spend 5.5 CENTS
    to correct the problem that they KNEW ABOUT for over 50 years.

    Screw it, Buy a Marlin X7 instead ;) Less expensive and more precise anyway...
     

  3. EDVLC7

    EDVLC7 G&G Newbie

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    Factory 700 triggers are enclosed therefore you cannot really clean inside them. I'd suspect excessive oiling and/or cleaning lubricants during cleaning could work its way down from the top into the trigger assembly from the bolt area attract dirt and get gummy of time. I can see how this could cause a "floating connector" to not move freely. If the floating connector is the issue, how do you get rid of it. Does the new X-Mark have this floating connector? Timney? Jewel? Changing the trigger assemblies is not difficult as I've installed a Jewel on my 700. I do have other 700's that are unaltered though.
     
  4. Daniel Boone: yes, no dirt can get into the chamber with the bolt closed. The problem is underneath the bolt in the trigger assembly and it is not sealed. There were enough instances shown in the program of police and marine snipers having the guns fire when gingerly releasing the safety with their hands away from the trigger to convince me that this is a real problem with some 700's.
     
  5. ninjatoth

    ninjatoth G&G Newbie

    My friend just bought a 700 from the 80's for $200,and he is my hunting partner this year,so I am the one who is a little nervous.I asked him to load one and drop it on the ground in a safe direction from 6 feet,so I think he will,or at least tap it loaded against a tree or do something to test it.Either way i'm staying clear of it.I am not a fan of those type of guns,I use exclusevly lever action guns with a hammer and half cock,but I live in MI where we don't have alot of range and he is from CO,so that's what they use out there.
     
  6. big shrek

    big shrek G&G Evangelist

    Load one and drop it?...Bad Idea.

    Just load it, point is in a safe direction, and attempt to engague the safety to the ON position.
    Then touch the bolt handle, then work the bolt handle.

    If it doesn't fire upon activating the fake safety or bolt handle, after testing it several times,
    they have a decent one...

    But I don't think I'd trust a Remmy 700 that hasn't been sent back to the factory & fitted
    with the newer trigger assembly. Fortunately, there is a recall now.

    In fact, I'm REALLY glad I didn't buy the one I saw in the pawn shop the other day.

    I'll stick to the Marlin XL-7 in .30-06...better & safer rifle, anyway.
     
  7. EDVLC7

    EDVLC7 G&G Newbie

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    What is the fix?
     
  8. Once a year clean the trigger with a good solvent blown out with compressed air and once the trigger is properly adjusted for hunting conditions, LEAVE IT ALONE. .......... Big Cholla
     
  9. EDVLC7

    EDVLC7 G&G Newbie

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    Big Cholla,
    I took my recently aquired 700 BDL, took it apart, and sprayed brake cleaner in the trigger assembly. While flushing it out, what came out on the rag really surprised me. To me it appeared like old lubricant or grease. It was brownish in color. Not sure if Remington lubricated the inside of their trigger assemblies from the factory however I know it's clean and dry as a bone in there now. I'd have to say I do not recommend cleaning it this way. After the cleaning, the trigger became notchy therefore I decided to install a Timney trigger to have piece of mind.
     
  10. EDVLC7

    EDVLC7 G&G Newbie

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    Big Shrek,
    I could not find a recall for the 700. Is it on their website?
     
  11. Mooseman684

    Mooseman684 G&G Newbie

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    This is what I found...
    Safety Modification Program

    Remington Model 700 & Model 40-X
    If you own a Remington Model 700 or Model 40-X rifle:
    Only those Model 700 or 40-X rifles made before March 1982 were manufactured with a bolt-lock mechanism. Model 700 or 40-X rifles made after March 1982 do not have a bolt-lock mechanism and may be loaded and unloaded with the safety in the “S” or “On Safe” position. Consequently, post-1982 Model 700 or 40-X rifles are not subject to this bolt-lock Safety Modification Program.

    To determine whether your Model 700 or 40-X rifle has a bolt-lock mechanism, either:

    • Call Remington toll-free at 1-877-387-6691 and a service representative will help you determine if your firearm has a bolt-lock mechanism, or

    • Take your Model 700 or 40-X rifle to a Remington Authorized Repair Center and a qualified gunsmith will examine your firearm and determine whether it has a bolt-lock mechanism.


    If your Model 700 or 40-X rifle has a bolt-lock mechanism, it is eligible for this bolt-lock Safety Modification Program. If you participate, your firearm will be cleaned and inspected for proper functioning by a qualified gunsmith. Once the condition of your firearm has been assessed, you will be notified of one of the following:

    • Your firearm’s trigger assembly is otherwise in good operating condition, and the gunsmith will proceed to physically remove the bolt-lock feature so that your rifle can be loaded and unloaded while the safety remains in the “S” or “On Safe” position; or

    • Your rifle’s trigger assembly is found to be in an unsatisfactory or potentially unsafe operating condition because of any number of factors, including wear, alteration or maintenance. The entire trigger assembly will be replaced with a new factory trigger assembly, which does not incorporate a bolt-lock mechanism.


    In either case, the total cost to you is $20 plus shipping and handling. You will also receive a safety redemption certificate to complete and submit in order to receive a free blaze orange hat (one hat per certificate).

    How to participate in the Safety Modification Program

    Complete the General Repair Form and
    Send or deliver your firearm and the completed repair form to either:
    a) A Remington Authorized Repair Center; or
    b) Ship your firearm to the Remington factory at:
    Remington Arms Company, Inc.
    Ilion Firearms Plant
    Attention: BL Safety Program
    14 Hoefler Avenue
    Ilion, NY 13357

    Remington will bill or arrange for payment once your firearm is received and evaluated.


    CAUTION: It is your responsibility to comply with all laws and regulations regarding transportation or shipping of your firearm. Absolutely no ammunition should be packaged with the firearm whether loaded in the firearm itself or included in the shipping container. The firearm should be transported only in a completely unloaded condition.
     
  12. Sorry, I should have been much more specific than I was. Brake cleaner is a degreaser to the max and removed all traces of lubricant. I have never used it because it is way too harsh. I should have mentioned the solvent I have used over and over with great success; WD-40..... A mild solvent that leaves a slight residue of lubricant.

    Your 'notchyness' may well be being developed at the bolt/trigger sear mate-up and not within the trigger itself. I use a good quality lubricant there called "RIG for Stainless Steel". I don't believe it is available on the market any longer under that name. Although, something like it is for sure. A Timney Trigger is a good option and I have used them several times in rifles other than Remington. ......... Big Cholla
     
  13. Da Mc

    Da Mc G&G Newbie

    Even if the gun is faulty, anyone who is holding a gun that is not aware of where the barrel is pointing at all times, shouldn't be holding one. The people that only rely on the mechanical safety on a gun are the ones I don't trust to have one.
     
  14. jwendtland

    jwendtland G&G Newbie

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    I own a Remington 700 VTR with the xmark pro trigger and I love it. I was hunting the other day and when I flipped the safety off the weapon fired. I wasn't 100% sure than i haden't hit the trigger without knowing. I was a little shocked. I later made sure the rifle was unloaded when I flipped the safety off and on two other occasions the firing pin was released. Now that said, I have adjusted the trigger and I can only assume that it lead to this problem. I do practice muzzle awareness though. That said, does anybody know what i need to adjust to fix this problem? Any advise would be appreciated and you probably shouldn't blame remington for this.
     
  15. DKA1

    DKA1 G&G Newbie

    I have used Remington 700's for 40+ years with not one accidental firing until Friday, November 26, 2010. Was in a Tripod Stand and seen a Buck coming straight to me. When he came in the clearing, I had the rifle standing on my right leg, with muzzle pointing up in the air. When I pushed the Safety forward, the rifle fired. Don't know who it scared the worst, me or the deer. This was a SPS with X Mark Pro Trigger. My Gunsmith said that was probably a small piece of trash or small speck of rust, somewhere in the trigger. He tore it apart and found nothing and could not make it do it again. I like the rifle and plan to get a Timney Trigger, to replace the trigger that is in it. I tell my Hunter Safety Classes that a Safety is a Mechanical divice that can malfunction. I will now tell them that it is a mechanical device that can and will malfunction.
     
  16. daniel3168

    daniel3168 G&G Newbie

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    howdy from texas new to the forum.

    So what i know about the safety issue with the 700's is what i have read on this posting and what i saw on MSNBCs 1hr segment. I kinda wish i did more research before i bought my 700 this year. So is the safety issue with only the older models and not the newer ones. I picked up a Remington 700 ADL .270 at Academy for $339 and i did my research on it but apparently not good enough cause i did not see a single thing about the safety issue when i googled the rifle. So i my question is: are the new ones they sale now affected by the issue as well?
     
  17. jerry

    jerry Since 2002 Forum Contributor

    20,570
    3,994
    USA
    Welcome. Please refer to post 51
     
  18. Mooseman684

    Mooseman684 G&G Newbie

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    Ok , Let me try to clear some of this up...
    Model 700 or 40-X rifles made after March 1982 do not have a bolt-lock mechanism and may be loaded and unloaded with the safety in the “S” or “On Safe” position. This , However, still does NOT make the trigger group safe if you have a Live round in the Chamber and the gun on Safe...if you move the safety to the Fire position , THE GUN CAN DISCHARGE ACCIDENTLY ! This Is Because of the floating connector is part of the trigger mechanism and NOT part of the bolt Modification Made by Remington so that you can Open the bolt and remove a Live round with the gun on Safe. That Modification had NOTHING to do with the Trigger pack.
    The Bottom Line is This...If You Chamber a live round and put the rifle on Safe and walk or run with ,or bump the rifle , climb a deer stand, or the trigger pack is dirty , there is a 50/50 chance or better that the gun will discharge when you move the safety to the fire position with ALL The Remingtons with the Factory Trigger pack , whether it has been adjusted or Not.
    The Above posts by others Clearly describe the problem they have experienced under real situations. The safety acts like the trigger because of the Flaw in the trigger pack.
    Again , If you Hunt with a Remington 700 of any age , you should never chamber a round until you see the game and are ready to make the shot.
    If you feel you cant work the Bolt fast enough , or leave the bolt in the OPEN position ready to close and shoot , then I suggest you buy a different rifle to hunt with... SAFETY is Our MAIN responsibility as Gun Owners.
    I have NEVER lost an animal because my Chamber was empty when I saw it appear...I work the bolt , aim and fire. Just That Fast. Even on Charging Grizzlies at Fish Camp. We mostly Hunt with Winchester Model 70's and even those we keep only the Magazine loaded WITHOUT a round in the chamber and the safety off.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2010
  19. daniel3168

    daniel3168 G&G Newbie

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    thanks for the quick responses well i never chamber a round till i am ready to shoot anyways but i will look into getting it examined by a gun smith. Thanks for the clarification
     
  20. PhilRich01

    PhilRich01 G&G Regular

    Ok all, I don't get it! First of all, why would anyone believe anything coming from the NBC network or its cable counterparts? NBC is where the term "lame stream media" came from. GE has made it very clear that the ownership of the network was to further GE's agenda of extreme liberal (possibly progressive) views and the company's personal financial gains. Now that Comcast has taken over, so far there has been no changes. You would think that some changes would be made to get the entire network ratings up off the bottom of the ocean.

    Secondly, Remingtons video response is not totally convincing as it also has an agenda to sell firearms that are considered safe and not go bankrupt on frivolous lawsuits. At least both sides of the question should be considered, and it seems that Remington has done that.

    Third, why would anyone use a safety on a long arm (rifle or shotgun)? Unless you are in combat in a war zone, I see no need. Granted, some ranges require the use of safeties but most, and all that I go to, require the chamber is open and the firearm put down and not touched. The people I shoot or hunt with know the safety rules and do not chamber a round until the target is realized an a safe shot can be rendered. Depending on a firearm safety is fool-hearty, IMHO and the opinion of others I am with... or I don't go with them. Would you give your car keys to someone whom you do not know if they know how to drive or not?? Then don't shoot with people unless they know and utilize ALL the safe rules!

    Listen to Mooseman684, if you are concerned, CALL REMINGTON! Even if you have a faulty firearm, if you never use the safety, it can not go off by itself, which is a misnomer, as it is in someones (a human) hands when it goes off. I have never heard of anything going off by itself locked in the safe (unless it was loaded and in a long lasting and very hot fire). Anyone that is going to take a perfectly good firearm and lock it away because they are afraid it might go off, needs to review the safety rules, and call the manufacturer. Do not rely on internet rumors and non empirical "guesstimations". Safe handling is always safer than a safety!!!

    One of my Remington rifles, a 1978 model 700 in 22-250 is one of my favorite varmiteers, and my youngest son's overall favorite; gotta keep an eye on that boy ;-). I have never had a problem with it. Of course, I have never used the safety on it, nor has my son but still never a worry. I will take Mooseman's advice and call Remington just out of curiosity, but I have no qualms at all about shooting it.

    Enjoy your firearms and use them as the wonderful tools that they are. Safe shooting to all of you.-Phil