Resident protects himself from potential Home Invaders turns out to be LEO Mistake

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by Shaun, May 23, 2002.

  1. Shaun

    Shaun G&G Evangelist

    This happened here last year and I think the homeowner was right in what he did in defending his home. The city got off cheap personally I think she should own the city.

    As a former LEO I consider this mistake as unacceptable they didn't even take the informant with them to verify the real home (Next door). Another good reason to always shoot first then ask questions later and also a good reason to use something that will penetrate heavy material (ie.. 12ga Slug)


    The wife of the elderly man killed when Lebanon police raided the wrong house will receive at least $400,000 in her settlement with the city.

    Lorine Adams has received $200,000 in a lump sum and will receive $1,675 per month for life, or for at least 10 years, whichever is longer. If she
    should die before the 10 years is up, the balance would go to her beneficiary.

    Her husband, John Adams, 62, was shot to death when Lebanon police wrongly burst into the Adams' home in a drug raid in 2000. The officers had
    intended to raid the house next door.

    The guaranteed payout over 10 years would be $201,000, according to the mediation settlement, and over 15 years it would be $301,500, all to be
    paid by the city's insurance carrier.

    Lorine Adams is 72, according to settlement documents.

    The documents were made public yesterday after The Tennessean sued under the state's public records law. The city and Lorine Adams, through her attorneys, had included a confidentiality agreement as part of the financial settlement.

    ''Yes, the law is very clear about us seeking public records,'' Tennessean lawyer Alan Johnson said. ''That is a document made or received by the city in connection with the transaction of official business.''

    Thinking his home was being robbed, John Adams fired a shotgun at the officers before they shot and killed him. Police Lt. Steve Nokes, head of Lebanon's narcotics unit, was fired for supervising the raid, but was later acquitted on related criminal charges.

    The settlement agreement also shows that Lebanon paid John Adams' medical bills of $45,000 and his funeral expenses of $5,804.
  2. BenP

    BenP Guest

    What's the difference between an honest mistake and pure incompetence? Here's a good example.

    I guess the old man's life wasn't worth much. I think it'd be better if they paid his direct descendents in perpetuity, except then the kids (if there were any) would probably mysteriously all die without heirs.

    Thank God I've got people who'd hunt down my killers, LEO or BG, and extract justice. I wonder what that Leuitentant would've done different if he was faced with the notion that any mistake he made like that would cost him his life and the lives of his family?


    NRAJOE YOU TALKIN' TO ME!? Forum Contributor

  4. Hank Springer

    Hank Springer Guest

    I know of many such cluster*^#ks, but fortunately, most haven't been as tragic. You can't be too careful when executing that kind of warrant. That ole wrong address has occured too many times.
    BATF is famous for that one.
    Last edited: May 23, 2002
  5. oneastrix

    oneastrix G&G Newbie

    Yep, that's a big one alright. No excuse. I'm a cop, and unfortunately, I've seen the same thing happen; fortunately with less severe consequences....
  6. Shaun

    Shaun G&G Evangelist

    I have been one several of these when I was an LEO and our policy was to serve the warrant with the informant/UCLEO on scene in a area where he is clear from ID. This served the purpose of having a positive ID of the BG and also a positive ID of the House.

    Because of this awareness and the fact I know I do everything possible to stay on the right side of the Law. I would be like the homeowner and have to take the stance that whoever is coming through the door is uninvited and plans on doing me harm. This means "I am fearful for my life and have to protect myself" - therefore wall of bullets is the response on the door opening.
  7. Calvin

    Calvin G&G Evangelist

    Something along the same lines happened to a security officer in Columbus 5 months ago, but it wasn't his fault, nor the renters' fault.
    The apartment complex marked vacant apartments with an "E", inside a circle. The officer was just checking the apartment to make sure no one was hiding out, or using it as a "5-minute Motel", which has happened alot there.
    Using his master key, the officer opened the door, and was promptly greeted by a man with a .45. The man pulled the trigger, but nothing happened. A struggle ensued, and the man quit after he realized the "intruder" was actually a security officer.
    The man, and his wife and children, had moved in the day before. The maintenance department had neglected to take the "E" off of the door. Honest mistake, and no one got hurt.
    The kicker is that the police were called, and the man was arrested on attempted murder charges. The man's .45 failed to fire because he had taken the firing pin out while detail cleaning it, and forgot to reinstall it right before the SHTF.
    The man was tried and convicted of trying to murder an armed security officer, and is pulling 6 years. Sad story, and the blame should've been on the management, but the judge and jury didn't see it that way. It happened at 12:15 A.M., and the lights had just been turned off before the officer opened the door. The man was just protecting his family. Now, his wife and kids have to visit him behind a plexiglass wall. I think it's a shame things have gotten this bad.
  8. There should be no such thing aas a no-knock warrant. No-knock warrants are a lazy cop's way of picking up a perp; and like every lazy man's way out, it is fraught with risk which the rewards do not justify.

    Every year in the US, more innocent civilians are killed by cops than cops are killed by anybody (2001 may be an exception due to the September 11 incident), but it ranges between 200-400 per year for innocents. And most of it could be prevented by being just a little bit smarter (read: I don't have a lot of hope).

    Of course, the "war" on drugs doesn't help. Most of no-knock warrants are served in drug cases. We ought to let people get stoned if they want to. The illegality of drugs causes more crime than the drugs themselves.
  9. jpaulghetto

    jpaulghetto Guest

    my experience in detroit for the last two decades indicates otherwise. your statement"The illegality of drugs causes more crime than the drugs themselves" is wrong, wrong, wrong.

    SPOCAHP ANAR G&G Enthusiast


    Studies have proven that if you treat drug use as a medical problem and treat the people who are addicted; it will be cheaper than any other option ie military, police legal etc... I think it was on a scale of about 1:10 something like 20 million vs 300 million.

    Besides look at all the people who are in jail and tying up the courts for just a simpole possesion of a substance. If you legalize drugs and regulate it and Tax the sh*t out of it like tobacco then you will have less crime; and less LEO abuses of power and infringment of our civil liberties. Unreasonable search and siezure...ever heard of it?

    On the down size Police and government budgets would be cut and they will NEVER let that happen!
  11. I'd like for you to support that assertion. Let's hear som of your experiences. For me, the math doesn't add up. You take a substance that, if it was not illegal, would cost pennies per use, and you make it illegal, the price goes up several orders of magnitude. If it were pennies, then there would be no incentive to boost cars, stereos, etc, or mug and kill, or prostitute. But because it's illegal and the price is way high, then you have to do those things to get your next fix.

    OTOH, if you like big government and paramilitary police, or you are a criminal defense attorny, illegal drugs are the hot setup.

    Let's see... freedom vs. big government? which one is better, since they are mutually exclusive?

  12. TKH

    TKH Guest

    FALPhil, go to a DUI traffic accident and hold a dying 10 year old girl in your arms, (her name was Rachel) telling her everything will be fine when you know it won't. Look at her mothers face as she watches her daughter die, and then look at the SOB who crossed the center line and head on collided his Dodge pickup with her Accord. Tell that girls mom we should let people get stoned if they want to. I'm sure she would love to hear it. (and yes, I have been there and done that. I also pulled a 14 month old baby out from underneath a dash board where she was wedged in so tight a loaf of bread wouldn't fit. Her mother (DUI) hit a building at about 40 in a Toyota Corolla, mom walked away, baby didn't. Babies name was Brieanna...)

    Freedom -vs- Big government? I want the freedom to allow my wife and kids to drive down the road without fearing some drunk or stoned idiot is going to take their lives. No, I can't protect them from everything, but I can fight to make sure morons that drink and drive or get stoned and drive get what they deserve. Making more substances available will not help our safety. And no I'm not some prohibitionist, I'm actually quite fond of Coors Light, but abuse happens, and legalizing more substances will only increase that availability and further that abuse.

    SPOCAHP ANAR G&G Enthusiast


    Freedom -vs- Big government? I want the freedom to allow my wife and kids to drive down the road without fearing some drunk or stoned idiot is going to take their lives.

    Your logic is flawed: DUI is illegal and yet it still happens. Just like making drugs legal will not stop nor promote the act of someone driving under its influence. Just like its illegal to kill people with a gun but it still happens-maybe we should ban them also? I want to drive w/o the fear of being hit by teenagers or elderly who cannot drive; so maybe we should ban their privledges also. I mean my freedom is important right. Maybe we should ban speakers bc I do not like to hear homie culture driving down the street a mile away?

    It is this sort of thinking which the HCI group uses. Your freedoms aren't worth a pile of SH*T if you would quash someone else's rights in the process. I DO NOT use drugs, smoke, drink excessively,or play lotto; and frankly don't give a da*n if anyone else does so long as they leave me alone and do not harm myself or others.
  14. TKH

    TKH Guest

    "don't give a da*n if anyone else does so long as they leave me alone and do not harm myself or others."

    Thats kind of the kicker there isn't it? What if they do harm you, then what? Do you load up and go find 'em? What about your family, what about your neighbor? Where do you draw the line. I'm sorry, the logic is not flawed. If substances are readily available, they will be abused. The more readily available, the more easily abused, and the more easily abused, the greater the consequences. Rights are important, believe me, I'll be the guy leading the charge if they try and take firearms. I think firearms are important, they serve a useful purpose. Does crack cocaine? If it does, I can't see it. There are a number of comparisons we could draw, but the bottom line is why legalize drugs? What possible good outcome can you envision.

    "I want to drive w/o the fear of being hit by teenagers or elderly who cannot drive; so maybe we should ban their privledges also."

    Well, we do restrict them, and just for that reason. If you prove you can not drive appropriately, your priveleges are restricted. And I guess that is an important distinction. The courts have ruled that driving is a privelege, not a right.

    I just can't see lighting up a joint as a right you are given by God or whomever you think rights come from.
  15. Oxford

    Oxford G&G Evangelist

    I'll take my chances on the LEO in the USA.


    Your statement below, which I've quoted,

    "frankly don't give a da*n if anyone else does so long as they leave me alone and do not harm myself or others."

    doesn't work in a civilizied society. I sure as "hail" don't want everyone acting like they're from Dodge City, the town listed by my handle. We cannot isolate ourselves from what other's are doing. That's a myth.

    Our system may not be perfect but it's better than any other legal system in the world as far as I'm concerned. I've come to that conclusion after traveling to many countries.

    That approach might be compared to the political views after WWI when the masses wanted to become isolationists.

    I'll take my chances on LEO in the USA.


    SPOCAHP ANAR G&G Enthusiast


    You assume by having a law it will prevent the action from happening. Bad logic. This is the exact same thing that people in HCI do. They say something is bad like guns, then pass a law. It gets abused so we pass another law, and so on. They show pictures of dead kids pass more laws and eventually ban them.

    People will always abuse drugs, liquor, guns etc... No matter how many laws you make these things will happen. Just because you don't like someone else's activities does not give you the right to ban them. And YES, if drugs were legal they would be regulated just like alcohol, as should any activity or item that is hazardous to the general public.

    Studies show that the War on Drugs is more costly to us than simple treatment and that does not factor in the cost to the public in the form of theft, insurance premiums, deaths costs etc...

    Show me ONE study that proves me wrong and I will gladly consider your point of view. My rights. Hmm I have the right of "Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness" be it doped up, drunk as a skunk, a virgin, a priest, living in the city, living in a cabin, charitable or greedy. The creator will judge me not you or anyone else.

    So TKH should alcohol and tobacco be banned?

    A man who gives up freedom for security deserves neither!
  17. Shaun

    Shaun G&G Evangelist

    Guys I can walk across the street to vanderbilt University and I can get a study from anyone one their that will prove any fact I want -- we got way off topic here. What I was trying to get at by posting this article was to show LEO's need to be more responsible in their actions and to also get the point across as to why Heavy penetration can be a good thing. This guy was using a #4 shot to defend himself.
    What I am also trying to point out the very same week of this incident actuall home invaders tried two other homes and shot it out with the homeowners -- guess how they came to the door in the middle of the night "knock, knock---- Police open UP" it is becoming a common entry method for the BG's
    TKH I agree with you whole heartedly on the drug issue. my policy on drugs is simple you use your inducing your death so let the citizens of the USA assist you right to the gas chamber.

    SPOCAHP ANAR G&G Enthusiast


    Go get that study. Seriously bc I have never seen one that proves keeping drugs illegal is cheaper and less detrimental to society than making them legal. I would like to see some good data for this.
  19. Shaun

    Shaun G&G Evangelist

    I wouldn't pay for a study anyway I was just trying to make a well known point that studies can be bought to say anything. Look at the ones the dems use against us all the time to show how bad guns are when in reality a gun has the same risk as a tape measure
  20. Doglips

    Doglips Guest

    My Arguement for legalizeing drugs is that we cant keep them out. Even maximum security prisons have drugs getting in....Prohibition did not work did it?. Why not tax the heck out of it...The $$ and police could go towards infoceing other crimes and buying equiptment to catch drivers under the influence.