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Rules of Engagement

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by SPOCAHP ANAR, May 14, 2002.

  1. SPOCAHP ANAR

    SPOCAHP ANAR G&G Enthusiast

    Can anyone out there (LEO's) tell us the "rules of engagement" for shooting someone in self defense. I know some but not all of them.

    This could mean the difference in 20 minutes filling out a report, or 20 yrs for wrongfull death.
     
  2. Shaun

    Shaun G&G Evangelist

    It depends on the state but the key requirement if Fear for your life or severe injury - also it applies to preventing the same from happing to another. Same rules apply for LEO's no shooting of the fleeing felon who is no longer a threat
     

  3. In todays legal enviroment and liberal law makers it could mean both either way.
    If I remember corectly The needed events for the use of deadly force is a precieved threat to you or your family with no other way of escape or evation. You must feel that your life is in iminate danger with no way out.
    I know I will get dinged on this but, If a guy is in your front entry way with a knife and you and your family are able to get out of the house via the back door with out confronting the intruder and you plug him anyway this is not considered self defence by any DA in any state.( we would all give you a thumbs up though)
    I would say to be sure check your local state law on the use of leathl force.
    And remember always say you felt your life was in danger. No attorney can agrue with your feelings. and in a court don't play though guy say loud and clear I WAS SCARED FOR MY LIFE! no one will disagree and anyone that counts will never call you a coward.
    Good Luck and I hope you never have to use any of this info.
     
  4. Calvin

    Calvin G&G Newbie

    In Ohio, you have to prove 3 things

    1) You were in fear for your life,
    2) The perpetrator(s) had a weapon that you could positively identify, and
    3) You made every attempt to hide from the perpetrator(s)

    You will be sitting in front of a grand jury, regardless of how the scene went down. There is no clear-cut case of self-defense in Ohio. It's up to the grand jury to decide if an indictment is warranted. If you are cleared, you are supposed to get your weapon back. Unfortunately, some have never had theirs returned.......
     
  5. oneastrix

    oneastrix G&G Newbie

    in TX it's fearing for your life or in order to prevent serious bodily injury. As LEO's we are able to "up the level of force" one notch over the perp.

    As a private citizen you need to be able to convince a grand jury that 1) a reasonable peron in your situation would not have retreated.

    2)when and to the degree that you believe that deadly force is immediately necessary to protect yourself against anothers use of unlawful deadly force or: aggrivated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, agg. sexual assault, rbbery or aggrivated robbery.

    or

    if you feel that your use of deadly force is necessary to protect a third person.

    Paraphrasing all of this.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2002
  6. TKH

    TKH G&G Newbie

    Colorado passed a "make my day" law that so far has stood up to the test. It follows the "home is a castle" doctrine that eliminates the "duty to retreat" from one's home. In other words, if someone enters your home and you are in fear for your life or that of your loved ones, you may use any means to defend yourself.

    Colorado statutes state: Deadly physical force may be used only if a person reasonably believes a lesser degree of force is inadequate and
    (a) The actor has reasonable grounds to believe, and does believe that he or another person is in imminent danger of being killed or of receiving great bodily injury, or
    (b) the other person is using or reasonably appears about to use physical force against the occupant of a dwelling or business establishment while committing or attempting to commit a burglary as defined in sections 18-4-202 to 18-4-204, or,
    (c) The other person is committing or reasonably appears about to commit kidnapping as defined in section 18-3-301 or 18-3-302, robbery as defined in 18-4-301 or 18-4-302, sexual assault as defined in 18-3-402 or 18-3-403, or assault as defined in 18-3-202 or 18-3-203


    In Colorado, LEO's are governed by Colorado Revised Statute #18-1-707 (2)
    "A peace officer is justified in using deadly physical force upon another person for a purpose specified above only when he reasonably believes that it is necessary

    (i) To defend himself or a third party from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of deadly physical force, or

    (ii) To effect an arrest, or to prevent the escape from custody of a person whom he reasonably believes:

    (I) Has committed or attempted to commit a felony involving the use or threatend use of a deadly weapon.

    (II) Is attempting to escape by the use of a deadly weapon, or

    (III) Otherwise indicates, except through a motor vehicle violation, that he is likely to endanger human life or to inflict serious bodily injury to another unless apprehended without delay.

    Hope this helps. Obviously laws differ from state to state...
     
  7. johno

    johno G&G Newbie

    anyone know about the people's republic of ca?
     
  8. Sorry in Cal.
    if you even own a gun your screwed.
    just shoot them and call your laywer or move.
    Too many liberals to get any kind of SD case.
    Its getting just as bad here in NY
     
  9. Arizona has basically the same laws as most.....reasonable belief of imminent severe physical harm or death to self or third party.

    Except, Arizona has the 'reasonable person' clause which simply means what the reasonable person would perceive as what is imminent. Good...except you better hope the grand jury or the trial jury has reasonable people on it too. Knowing the growing number of liberals they might get tougher and tougher to find.

    In Arizona, the use of deadly force also covers your premises and property too whereas some states are vague on that issue.
     
  10. Rave

    Rave G&G Evangelist

    Here in Florida we have pretty much common sense laws generally along the "reasonable man"line.
    For you in the liberal states that voted for Gore,I feel your pain,but you more or less asked for it!
    I suggest you either learn to live with it or move.:nod: :nod: :nod: :rolleyes:
     
  11. NOT ALL OF USE IN THE "LIBERAL STATES" VOTED FOR GORE,CLINTON (EITHER ONE) OR THE SHUMERS AND KENADYS.
    WE JUST HAPEN TO BE OUT NUMBERED BY THE STUPID PEOPLE IN OUR STATES.
     
  12. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    Tell me if this makes sense:
    I would make known to the intruder that I was armed and insist that he leave. If he makes any aggressive action, I would think that constitutes a serious threat, as no one in their right mind would charge an armed man just to steal something. Would that not clearly justify deadly force in self defense?
     
  13. All you have to do is convice 12 jurers that any reasonable person would fear for thier life or seriouse injury. In the case you mentioned I would say yes blast him.
    thats just me, you would have to make that call on your own since its just you and him.
     
  14. SPOCAHP ANAR

    SPOCAHP ANAR G&G Enthusiast

    Get a lawyer

    Someone else posted that you should say nothing to the cops until you get a lawyer. Remeber its not the cop but the DA that prosecutes. The cop just tells the Da what he thinks you were doing/did based on what you tell him. Say something nervously like "I shot the guy when he came in" while still under shock and you could be facing 20-life.

    This has been a good post and I suggest everyone read it. There is a lot of CYA info on here!
     
  15. Shaun

    Shaun G&G Evangelist

    Phacopsrana it was me who said that specifically because I was a cop in PRK. The main reasoning for it is like you said and this also will help you with the civil suit to follow by the way a recent attemped home invasion in TN turned out that the owner was woke up and stopped it. He found 2 would be shooters in a small room both armed (AK series rifle and Tec 22)and with duct tape and rope. The Homeowner chose the wrong gun he grabbed his wifes 38 with snake shot and peppered both (1 in the face). He should have grabbed his 45 that way he doesn't have to deal with the trail as one is the son of Charlie Chase (country music fame) this guy has money and may sue the home owner for shooting his son in the face with snake shot. Otherwise the homeowner is looking at no criminal prosecution of the homeowner
     
  16. I would tend to agree First call your lawyer then 911.