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russian maks stamped with bulgarian circle 10

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by RogueDragon, May 22, 2002.

  1. RogueDragon

    RogueDragon G&G Newbie

    I just bought a bulgarian mak for $175. It came with all the cosmoline like goo and in a box with the original red star grips along with the import ones. I read on a link that there were some russian military maks imported as bulgies with the circle 10 stamp. It even matches the pix on of a russian mak with bulg. stamps. Any advice from the wiser than I out there who could help a relative newcomer?:confused:
  2. artnkaren

    artnkaren G&G Newbie

    I understood that most Russian Maks have an adjustable rear site. I do not know if all of them do. I was going to buy one of these a while back and was told by someone that it is still a Bulgarian. Can't help any further.

  3. Don't the russians all accept the hi-cap mags also?
  4. I'm afraid I can offer no help here.

    I have heard of Russian Maks being stamped as Bulgies but for the life of me dont understand why. It seems the only benefit would be to get around import/export restrictions on Russian Maks but there are none that I am aware of.
  5. Shane

    Shane G&G Newbie

    No, not all Russians are hi cap. Yes, I'm told if it has an adj. rear sight than it's a Russky. Comrade Clinton banned the import of guns from Russia so some Russkys were marked as Bulgies. For more info from true experts, go to Gunboards.Com Forums (Makarov)
  6. Tok762

    Tok762 G&G Newbie

    Being helpful guys, it was common for the Soviets to send arms to their client states. When E. German Maks came into the country, late year Makarovs came in with them. Probably supplied after the E German production was stopped in 1965. Mostly late 70's and 80's dates
    A good number of earlier dated (60's and 70's) came in with the Bulgarians. I would speculate they were provided when Bulgaria adopted the Mak(mid 70's) but production was still slow.
    When the arms stores of these countrys where emptied, there was no effort to sort by arsenal. Everything in Bulgaria came over as Bulgarian, even Russian "lend-lease".
  7. Thanks for the info Tok762.

    I grew-up in East Germany and now own a really nice 1960 EG Mak but have never known much about the history or migration of them since they became available to the world. The GST trained us in basic marksmanship with Russian M44's but what we all REALLY wanted to learn to use was the AK47.

    No dice.

    As for Makarovs?...........I only saw them in holsters.

    Now I live in the USA and own one of each; a Polish M44, an AK47 and an EG Mak.

    Ain't life ironic sometimes?
  8. Tok762

    Tok762 G&G Newbie


    Glad to know you ended up on the west side of town. If I can figure out how to post a picture I think you would enjoy a waffen zustand (sp?) card I got with a mis-imported Russian pistol. Shows it recieved in inventory in E German arsenal(not issued). Have similar card for E German Mak which went through many years service. Amazing that such close control was kept on each individual pistol. Must have had a lot of folks who just kept track of state property( or maybe just weapons).

  9. Dear Tok762,
    Yes, the card you mention "Waffen Zustand" was a sort of "Status Card" that would have been maintained over the life of the gun and recorded regular inspections and any changes in condition.
    Well, yes, when it came to weapons the East German Apparatus took great lengths to document and keep a close eye on everything. As for the Russians....well, they weren't so careful. Anyway, to answer your question. The State definately watched anything having to do with internal security issues very closely. guns & ammo (neither of which were in public hands), computer & communications equipment, vehicle modifications, literature, etc.
    Even to this day, when you go to the gun range you are required to get your ammo from the Range Master and at the end of your day you are required to account for each shell/round signed-out. If you took 50 rounds of BETTER have 50 spent or unused casings when you return.

    So you wasn't just a Commie thing. It's a German thing. Big Brother is always present in Germany, he just changes flags and colors every 50 years. Hahahaha

    Now you see why I call myself CrankyKraut
    Now you see why Germany asked me to leave! Hahahaha!
  10. Klaus

    Klaus G&G Newbie

    No, it is not a German thing. It is a Euro-Socialist thing.
  11. Hi Klaus,
    I didn't intend my above comment to spark a debate and I really dont want you to think that I am attacking you personally but I really must disagree with your above post.

    East Germany was a Police State...pure and simple. The Security Apparatus (Stasi & ABV) did keep a constant eye on its citizens and their activities...all the way down to their grocery purchases, favorite beverages and choice of house pets not to mention political leanings, inappropriate hair styles and the direction their TV antenna faced.

    The only other European country where I officially lived was in Hungary as a student and while there I was never subjected to the same outrageous levels of scrutiny or control. I can only speak for my life in East Germany which involved constant surveilence, multiple arrests, numerous "detentions" and ultimately my expulsion from the German Democratic Republic in January of 1987. Following the fall of the Wall and my return in 1991, I discovered that many of the same laws (Gummiparagraphen) used in the GDR are still present and enforced by the "new regime". New flag, new anthem same BS.

    I miss Germany very much and miss all of my family and friends who remained behind but I will never return now that I have experienced life in a country that is far from perfect but still much closer to being free than Germany ever will be.

    I am very proud to be German and do not deny being a German Nationalist but after living in East Germany, Hungary, Turkey, South Africa, The United Arab Emirates, Mexico and the USA, I really must beg to unfortunately really IS a German thing.
  12. Klaus

    Klaus G&G Newbie

    It is a Euro-Socialist thing, like I said. West Germany is like that. France is like that. England is worse. Italy, Spain, ETC. All the Central and Western European countries have similar laws. Some of the Eastern European countries are more lenient on firearms because they had the overthrow the commies and value freedoms more. I do not know about the Czechs and and Romanians, but I bet they are not as bad as Germany, England, France, et al, in repressing people.
  13. Ok Klaus.
    We should probably just drop the issue since it has really wandered off topic from the original "Waffen Zustand" Cards that Tok762 was commenting on.

    The original question was "Must have been a lot of folks who just kept track of State property (or maybe just weapons)"

    The Answer: Yes indeed but in West Germany things are not much different.

    To control a population you must constantly watch and record everything they do. You must look authoritarian, be intimidating and insist upon conformity. My point was that these tactics were not first developed by the West Germans. They are not tactics created by the East Germans. These oppresive techniques did not originate under Hitler. They are German traits that have been around for a long time, adopted and continued by every new regime and repeatedly accepted if not welcomed by the bulk of the people as possibly the only means of maintaining order in an otherwise unstable country.

    Tok762 asked a question that specifically related to East Germany and my response was limited to that realm. I have no intimate knowledge of ALL of the laws of ALL of Western, Central & Eastern Europe as you seem to have.

    Whatever our differing views maybe, I see that we have BOTH chosen to leave Germany..... I left the East and I presume from your past derogatory comments about my car, etc that you left the West. People dont leave their homes unless they have something to fear by staying OR something to gain by leaving. For me BOTH factors motivated my immigration to The USA.

    Please excuse me if my crankiness has gone too far but the topic was widened to a much bigger issue than just gun control in Germany and my lifetime of experiences does not allow me to so easily "write-off" any of these unpleasantries as "Euro-Socialist" excesses.

    I place the blame where it lies. It was an East German Stasi Agent and not a "Euro-Socialist" that charged me with Öffentliche Herabwürdigung - Publically Insulting The State, and then proceeded to educate me in the virtues of respect. The lesson left me with epilepsy and a semi-parylized left leg. I found out that day just how many people there were "looking out for the State".

    My crime? I angrily asked the local baker how it was possible that he had no bread at 2pm in the afternoon. That deserves a beating, 6 weeks in a hospital and 1 year probation dont you think? That was October of 1986.

    A few months later I was expelled from the DDR with only the clothes on my back. I got to leave AND screwed them out of 9 months of my probation! .......LOL

    Years later, after my return to "Reunified Germany" in 1991, I again was treated to corruption and petty beurocrats with the power to complicate the lives of those who do not conform.
    New flag........same BS.

    After 8 years, I was fed-up and depressed by my "Berufsverbot "- Ban to work in ones field of training. I was a teacher.
    This Ban was by the way imposed by the WEST German Government NOT the Commies. hehehe

    In March of 2000 I drove my Trabi to Bremerhaven and paid cash to place it on a Norwegian transport ship bound for Galveston, Texas. A few days later I found myself illegally crossing the border into France, en route to the USA.

    Sorry but I never once encountered a Euro-Socialist during my adventures. Just Germans.

    OK, now I'll
  14. Caliber9

    Caliber9 G&G Newbie

    There were some Russians imported as Bulgies, but a "circle 10" is still a "circle 10 Bulgarian". :(
    Russian's will have a Bifurcated Triangle in a circle.
  15. Bret

    Bret G&G Newbie

    I think that you may have misread what was stated. Some of the Russian military pistols that were imported with Bulgarian pistols were marked "made in Bulgaria" or something similar by the importer. I have a couple of Russian military pistols, but they were not marked as being made in Bulgaria by the importer. As Caliber9 said, a Russian military pistol has a bifurcated triange in a circle while a Bulgarian military pistol has a 10 in a circle. If you see a Makarov with an adjustable site, then it is a Russian commercial pistol.
  16. Shane

    Shane G&G Newbie

    While we have gotten way OT, I want to thank Cranky Kraut for teaching me about life in Germany, old and new.
    I'n now even more grateful to be an American.