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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I bought 2 boxes of this Sellier and bellot 180 gr SP 7.62x54r ammo and wow, it is the most beautiful and well made x54r I've ever seen. nice brass cases and true copper jackets with large exposed lead tips which are all very uniform in shape, nice crimping/ cannelluer on the bullet. I fired a few of them and they group about half the size of milsurp x54r. they have a stout kick, and i have no doubt that they will do fine for my intended purpose which is bear/ predator defense. I know a bolt action is less than ideal but its the most powerful firearm I have and since cutting it down to m44 length it's a much handier weapon than the prior m91/30 form.

The 2 boxes plus shipping came out to $39. something... basically $1/round, which im ok with given the quality. Ive never bought this brand of ammo but I couldn't find anything locally and had to order online, this seemed like the best round for the money and purpose.

The boxes are freaking huge for 20 rounds, at least 3 times the size of a .223 box. Shown here next to a .223 55 gr HPBT.
 

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Sportsmans warehouse used to carry S&B. I was bummed out when they stopped carrying it in rifle rounds. At least locally.
 

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S&B is arguably the finest ammo in the world. If you aren't already hooked, PPU out of Serbia is pretty fantastic as well. Both S&B and PPU were ridiculously cheap but have been on the rise as more people learned about them.

For handgun ammo there is a Turkish company called Yavex that makes some beautiful stuff. The problem with them is that evry time I see a box I wonder how much of the profit from it eventually found its way to Turkish-supported Muslim terrorism.

As a side note, if you have a 7.62 Tokarev caliber weapon, the S&B is about the closest you can get to original factory spec in terms of ballistics. Most other iterations are watered down a bit more.
 

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I bought 2 boxes of this Sellier andInbox bellot 180 gr SP 7.62x54r ammo and wow, it is the most beautiful and well made x54r I've ever seen. nice brass cases and true copper jackets with large exposed lead tips which are all very uniform in shape, nice crimping/ cannelluer on the bullet. I fired a few of them and they group about half the size of milsurp x54r. they have a stout kick, and i have no doubt that they will do fine for my intended purpose which is bear/ predator defense. I know a bolt action is less than ideal but its the most powerful firearm I have and since cutting it down to m44 length it's a much handier weapon than the prior m91/30 form.

The 2 boxes plus shipping came out to $39. something... basically $1/round, which im ok with given the quality. Ive never bought this brand of ammo but I couldn't find anything locally and had to order online, this seemed like the best round for the money and purpose.

The boxes are freaking huge for 20 rounds, at least 3 times the size of a .223 box. Shown here next to a .223 55 gr HPBT.
 

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ice brass cases and true copper jackets with large exposed lead tips which are all very uniform in shape, nice crimping/ cannelluer on the bullet. I fired a few of them and they group about half the size of milsurp x54r. they have a stout kick, and i have no doubt that they will do fine for my intended purpose which is bear/ predator defense. I know a bolt action is less than ideal but its the most powerful firearm I have and since cutting it down to m44 length it's a much handier weapon than the prior m91/30 form.
Nice brass cases? Not if you reload them. I have a Lee Enfield No.4 Mk.1 that I acquired a whole lot of brass for, including a bunch of S&B. I reloaded them with a rather medium to low load. I noticed that the S&B brass was separating when I fired them, all the other manufacturers did not. I had to use my stuck case extractor kit a lot to get the separated piece back out. Now if I run into any S&B brass at the range it goes straight into the brass trash barrel. I will not use it.
 
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Nice brass cases? Not if you reload them. I have a Lee Enfield No.4 Mk.1 that I acquired a whole lot of brass for, including a bunch of S&B. I reloaded them with a rather medium to low load. I noticed that the S&B brass was separating when I fired them, all the other manufacturers did not. I had to use my stuck case extractor kit a lot to get the separated piece back out. Now if I run into any S&B brass at the range it goes straight into the brass trash barrel. I will not use it.
Good to know. I have 2 boxes of empty 7x57 saved I was going to reload at some point (maybe).

I bought 4 boxes of S&B and dies when I bought the rifle, it's possible the last 2 boxes are a lifetime supply so I may never actually need to reload for it...
 
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Nice brass cases? Not if you reload them. I have a Lee Enfield No.4 Mk.1 that I acquired a whole lot of brass for, including a bunch of S&B. I reloaded them with a rather medium to low load. I noticed that the S&B brass was separating when I fired them, all the other manufacturers did not. I had to use my stuck case extractor kit a lot to get the separated piece back out. Now if I run into any S&B brass at the range it goes straight into the brass trash barrel. I will not use it.
It might just be that particular case. Their 9mm and 45acp brass has always been great, but I've never reloaded any of their rifle ammo. I think PPU brass and Starline brass are the only two I never had any problems with in any caliber, though.

Everything else was pretty much a matter of one caliber being OK and another not being OK. Or one caliber within a certain brand could only be reloaded once, and the other could get three or four runs before I started having issues.

Reloadability isn't exactly the best measure for good ammo, though. Some of the most legendary ammo in history, "Lot 79" South African 7.7, is not reloadable because of the way the brass was extruded. Still, that batch was so good that the military held it in reserve as match and sniper ammo until the Enfield was completely phased out.

MFS brass for 9x18 Makarov is also nearly useless, but I still maintain it is some of the best ammo available in the caliber. Some of the Fiocchi brass is also finnicky - though I know some of their ammo is manufactured by Sirok, some come from various Italian sources, and some is American. Generally the American cases are the most likely to be crappy.
 

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When looking at the price of the reloadable brass 7.62x54r ammo, you need to keep in mind that you will get to keep the .50 cents a piece brass. So a ammo deal like this.
https://www.sgammo.com/product/prvi...-150-grain-brass-case-non-corrosive-prvi-part
with shipping your cost per is .68 cents & you get to keep .50 cent piece of brass, your cost per pull of the trigger is .18 cents. Then you can reload it or sell it.
That's not bad no matter which way you look at it.
 

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I think PPU brass and Starline brass are the only two I never had any problems with in any caliber, though.
I have never had any problems with Starline, who is my main source for 10mm Brass. But I haven't probably loaded enough PPU to generate a feeling. I kind of suspect that both PPU and S&B brass might come from the same source, they are not too far apart.
 

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I kind of suspect that both PPU and S&B brass might come from the same source, they are not too far apart.
I could almost guarantee that's not the case. The Czechs and the Serbs have both been making their own brass for more than a century and it is a matter of pride for both companies. The color of the brass is also slightly different.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
good convo guys, I love ammo.. one of the best 9mm rounds i have seen is RWS 124 gr 9mm fmj. it looks like it was polished before it left the factory, I dont even shoot it but keep it in reserve.
Gandog I'm basing that " nice brass cases" purely on looks. But thanks for the heads up as I may start reloading one day.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I plan on these 2 boxes lasting many years. I will target shoot with milsurp or regular fmj new manufacture. since ive tested these SP's and confirmed the function I dont think ill shoot another until i either have to, or after a few years to make sure they still function.
 

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I could almost guarantee that's not the case. The Czechs and the Serbs have both been making their own brass for more than a century and it is a matter of pride for both companies. The color of the brass is also slightly different.
Well, then we're just right back to I do not trust their brass. Because I reload EVERY caliber I shoot except .22 Rifle.
 
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Well, then we're just right back to I do not trust their brass. Because I reload EVERY caliber I shoot except .22 Rifle.
I guess it is like a black lab and dachshund - both are fantastic hunting dogs in their own right, but you can't really use them for the same things.

S&B is widely regarded as THE, if not among the, finest ammo manufacturer(s) on the planet. Maybe they just aren't for reloading.

Heck, maybe S&B rifle ammo is hard to reload on purpose. Maybe it is like the old Fulton Enfields - they are intentionally made so you won't take them apart and change things on them so that no one blames them if you screw something up.
 

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Not too long ago IQV 8888 did a comparison shootout of the different Surplus 54r rds that are available @ 300 yds (I think ) and they found the Brown Bear to be the most accurate with the rifle they were using in the test

All the 54r ammo in my Mosin can is Surplus Steel case as it's cheap and plentiful but I do plan on reloading for it as soon as I find some brass to reload and the dies for it. As far as finding once fired 54r brass locally goes, it will most likely be some Privy / PPU or Winchester white box since it's the cheapest on the shelf and that's what most people shoot for brass plinking ammo. I've been buying up a lot of powder, primers, bullets and some brass from a local source that I found recently, Unfortunately they don't have any x39 or 54r brass available. It turns out that the gals dad passed away recently and he had a huge reloading room that they've been selling off instead of keeping it and getting into reloading themselves even though he's a gulf war vet. Anyhoo I picked up 250 rds of 22-250 & 200 rds of 223 Winchester brass from them and I'm debating picking up some 30-30 Winchester brass from them since I have 30-30 dies and I can get it cheap :) . On another note I have a local source for brass that also ships brass from Southern Idaho brass down in Eastern Idaho in Run 5 Run's neck of the woods that y'all might be interested in if any of you use any of the Firearms groups @ www.mewe.com ?
 

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About the only 7X57 brass I have is PPU and NNY, possibly the same manufacturer, yet different headstamp?

Another bad story, some of the 7X57 NNY brass seemed to have thicker rim than they should. They were extremely hard to chamber and extract. As a matter of fact one got jammed into my receiver I just got a bad batch? I don't know. But not all of them had this thicker rim. I took all NNY empties and live rounds and tried to cycle the action. Some went through like goose poop, the ones that didn't I tossed. Never happened before or after, but If I pick one up on the range I will try to cycle it first. QA problem, maybe I just got these from a bad lot?
 

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I think two of the boxes of 40 S&W ammo that I picked up in a trade deal the other day are NNY but I haven't done anything with any of the ammo I got the other day other than Stowing it in my ammo cans. If those are NNY I'll check them out and see if they cycle okay in my Firestar :) ..
 

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