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s&b ammo or gun prob?

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by toolman, Aug 5, 2002.

  1. toolman

    toolman Resident Sasquatch Forum Contributor

    just got back from shooting the new m-39 and now have a question for you guys,has anyone had a problem with the s&b 180gr soft point ammo? wasn't able to go to the range so i improvised out at the lake-shot 15 rds of wolf 200gr fmj w/no problems then loaded 5 rds of the s&b.first shot i felt a stab of pain in my right thumb and assumed that i had somehow gotten it under the cocking piece and gotten bit. fired the final 4 rds with no further problems then came home due the heat.i got to looking at the brass and the wolf looked ok but the s&b had one pierced primer and all of the primers have a ring of brass around the firing pin indentation like the brass was forced back into the firing pin hole.this looks like an indication of high pressure to me,any ideas? this is my first time shooting s&b in a m/n but i've never had a problem with it in my mausers,bad lot,maybe?
     
  2. jarcp

    jarcp G&G Newbie

    Toolman, I don't know what to tell ya, I've never had any problems with the S&B. What are you doing with the used brass by the way? I'll buy it from you if you're not reloading it yourself.
     

  3. Just went though 4 boxes of the same S&B with 2 different M/Ns and no problems at all.
     
  4. I had problems with my Garand using S&B .308 147grn ammo. The bolt would not kick back enuff to eject the spent shell and cycle a new round. I have always used S&B with my pistols, no problems. However, I coulnt believe that this sh it happend when using the .308 . I would have to manually pull the op rod back to feed a new round into the chamber after every round. I contacted S&B and to no avail did I get any help. The said that they would replace all the ammo but never did.
     
  5. jerry

    jerry Since 2002 Forum Contributor

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    open any loading book & you have a classic example of high pressure sign. Why? there could be numerous reasons, quality control, powder "breaking down" with vibration of shipping, etc. might have just been a fluke.
     
  6. toolman

    toolman Resident Sasquatch Forum Contributor

    s&b ammo

    thanks for the input guys,i sent s&b an e-mail but haven't got a reply yet and i'm fixing to go back to work for another two weeks so i guess my wife will have to watch for it.since the wolf shot ok i think it almost has to be the ammo.almost scared to shoot any more of it-my thumb still hurts! guess i should be glad that's all that hurts,huh?
     
  7. jarcp

    jarcp G&G Newbie

    ITCBOY, did you ship the ammo back? I've worked with S&B for a while now and I've always seen excellent customer service.
     
  8. I was told to shoot the rest of the ammo that I had. I bought four hundred rounds. It was a pain in the *** to go through it. The guy said that he would replace the rounds wich would not cycle(pretty much all of them), but never did. He said that I was the first to complain about this and he wanted to see if others would have problems too. I emailed the Czechs in Europe, and then talked with a rep at S&B USA. I lost a lot of confidence with them. All my pistols have never touched any other ammo but S&B. I dont know what else to say about it.
     
  9. Dennis

    Dennis G&G Evangelist

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    Did you check you fireing pin protrusion length? That may be the problem.
     
  10. Michael M

    Michael M G&G Newbie

    I had the same problem with the last batch of S&B that I shot in my 39. Pierced primers,flattened primers, higher shot placement, more felt recoil. Wolf and Russian surp run just fine in this piece. Stopped shooting the rifle immediately, and checked head space when I got home. Checks fine. Also have feeding problems in my Hungarian 44. Don't have much left, so I will use it up in a Polish 44, no problems there. This cartridge spaces on the rim, so perhaps the Finns have a slightly looser chamber. I think it is just too hot for this rifle, but that leads to questions about quality control, lot to lot consistency. Whatever, I'll stick with the Wolf, which is cheaper, anyway. One rainy day, I'll have to cast the chambers and check it out, maybe when it gets cold and nasty.
     
  11. Ron Y

    Ron Y G&G Newbie

    I read an earlier post, I don't remember who made it, but the S$B ammo had pierced primers caused by excessive firing pin protrusion. The Wolf ammo seemed fine. It may be something else to check.
     
  12. Calvin

    Calvin G&G Newbie

    The problem could be too tight of a crimp from the factory. I had one lot of S&B that did the same thing, so I went to pulling the bullets to reload the brass myself. I have NEVER had to smack my bullet puller so hard to get a bullet out in 15 years of reloading! I have a sizing die with the decapping pin out of it, and reloaded the brass with a moderate crimp, using their primers and powder. Not one single problem. A buddy had the same results after shooting his SVD. He did the same thing with his S&B brass, and he didn't have any further problems.
    The firing pin protrusion could be the problem, too. But, after pulling those bullets, it seemed to me that the crimp they applied at the factory would jack up the pressure to a very dangerous level.
    Just my 2 cents worth.....
     
  13. JAMES

    JAMES G&G Newbie

    I have not yet experienced any problems with S&B ammo. I fired some of the 180gr SP rounds through a 91/30 just yesterday and they went down range nicely. I tend to use the S&B as a baseline for other ammo; perhaps my baseline is not as solid as I thought.....
    Sure sounds like a quality control problem at the factory.
     
  14. Dennis

    Dennis G&G Evangelist

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    The Crimp idea may hold water, I have seen relativley large velocity variations caused by differences in crimp pressure, and laquer sealant at the crimp.
    Check the neck area if there are horizontal separations then the crimp may be the culprit cause of your high pressures
    also check bullet size (there are variations)and neck length.
    Ya know since S/B and others make 7.62x54r by the train load
    Theres bound to be some QC issues.
     
  15. JAMES

    JAMES G&G Newbie

    After reading the posts again, I pulled out one of my boxes of S&B 7.62x54 and, as Calvin noted, the rounds are WELL crimped.

    I have experienced no problems with my lot of S&B ammo so far, but you sure seem to have nailed a likely cause of the problem. I wonder what S&B has to say about their crimping process....
     
  16. toolman

    toolman Resident Sasquatch Forum Contributor

    hi guys,i just got back home so i haven't had much time to check stuff but the crimp idea kinda has me wondering.there were no neck separations or cracking of any kind,just the primer probs.,i recieved a reply from S&B but haven't got around to sending them lot nmbrs. etc.my son and i went to the range a couple of weeks ago and shot approx. 150 rounds of wolf and surplus russian through three different guns including the m-39 with no problems.shot a few more rds of the S&B,(same box), through both the m-39 and my m-44 with the same results-"ringed" primers. i'm going to call the guy at S&B tomorrow and see what's up. to be continued....