Save the cute & cuddly wolves....NOT!

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by Archetype_wyo, Oct 8, 2010.

  1. Archetype_wyo

    Archetype_wyo G&G Enthusiast

  2. Is it me or does it seem like those kind of things always make it sound like they are trying to exterminate and not lower the population? I know Up here Wolves are not cute and cuddly, they WILL kill you if they feel threatened or if you are alone and they think they can get a free meal. I know I get irratated when people say "there is no recorded incident of a wolf killing a human" because just last winter there was a school teacher up here in alaska who was killed and partlly eaten by a wolf pack. They are just as dangerous as Bears and cougers.

    Also Bit of inforamtion I read a couple years ago, do you know a full grown Wolf has the same amount of bite pressure as a grizzly bear.

    I know how dangerous they are but I still find them fascinating. But at the same time I have no ill minded thoughts of cute and cudly. They are wild DANGEROUS animals.
     

  3. Archetype_wyo

    Archetype_wyo G&G Enthusiast


    That and not many people know that wolves can and will kill just to kill. Just for the sport of it.
     
  4. BarryHalls

    BarryHalls G&G Evangelist

    I'm SORT OF for the reintroduction of predators.

    IF we stop hunting, we need more predators, but I want hunting to continue. I love it. I WANT the game to be MORE overpopulated. So, I like predators, but I don't want them here :).
     
  5. Wolves only kill for the sport of it when there is something wrong with the alpha or the pack grows too large. That's where controlled hunting comes in, there was an established balance that worked pretty well for a very very long time before they started to be shot on sight.

    I don't see attempts to kill or expell all the bears and cougars and rattle snakes happening, they are just animals doing what they do and if you exercise common sense you will be fine nine out of ten times.

    Everyone has their own ideas but I do not see culling a huge majority of a population of animals as anything but selfish when its done from baseless fears many times.
     
  6. Archetype_wyo

    Archetype_wyo G&G Enthusiast

    Well up here...they can and will destroy large numbers of livestock. So...for the sake of the families around here...if I see one...I will shoot on sight. Always remember the 3 S's::

    1.) Shoot
    2.) Shovel
    3.) Shut-up
     
  7. shop tom

    shop tom G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    I suspect the Yoopers in Upper Michigan have been using the same method of wolf management..................

    tom
     
  8. Archetype_wyo

    Archetype_wyo G&G Enthusiast

    Yeah it's just abunch of yuppies that like the cute cuddly wolves couldn't ever do any wrong!!!
     
  9. DaTeacha

    DaTeacha Things are not what they seem. Forum Contributor

    All wild things, both plant and animal, are always struggling to survive. That's what makes things evolve to suit their environment. Whether it's competition between two branches on the same tree for light, two trees in the same forest for space, vegetarian critters competing for plants to eat, or carnivores competing for vegetarians to eat -- competition is what improves the species. Wolves are pack hunters, lone predators, scavengers, and everything else it takes to survive. Those that don't survive have zero chance to pass their genes along. Even those that do have to struggle for the right to reproduce in the pack.

    The struggle for survival has been going ever since life began. Wolves die just like everything else if they aren't good enough at surviving. Pups die in the den if the pack doesn't find enough food. Adults die from injuries due to fights or from grabbing the wrong end of the wrong prey animal or falling through the ice or getting bogged down in deep snow or any of a hundred other hazards. Young die from being stupid in one way or another.

    At some risk of starting a loud discussion, let me say that I like knowing wolves are out there, just like the bears and the cougars. I wouldn't be real happy about it if I was raising cattle or sheep and wolves decided my stock was an easier meal than an elk, but I wouldn't want to kill them all, just keep them from my critters. If I was renting federal land (done real cheaply, too I might add) to graze my critters on, I think I'd have to look into ways to keep them from being on the wolf menu other than killing wolves wholesale. It means more work, but I'd figure it's part of the rent since there is hardly any cash involved in renting an acre of grazing land.

    We have coyotes here but not timber wolves. There is no federal land to rent - everyone owns their land or pays rent to the tune of about $100 per acre to someone else. Wildlife lives on private land for the most part. There is some state game land in the immediate area, but most of the land is privately owned.

    We raise sheep, have for many years. We have not lost a sheep to a coyote attack, ever. We have fences to keep the sheep in and unwanted guests out, and donkeys to handle any canine that manages to get in where he shouldn't be. Some neighbors have Komondors, some have Great Pyrennes, some have Wolf Hounds. The coyotes have to deal with traps and varmint hunters, but are managing to survive quite well without becoming overly abundant. As proof, we also have foxes, which wouldn't be true if there was a huge coyote population.

    Critters like wolves, bears, cougars, and all the vegetarians that could stomp you to death in a minute or two are a major part of what makes the wild lands wild. We need to recognize that wild things need more space to live in than an enclosure in a zoo. Yeah, individual animals that go out of their way to cause difficulty with humans need to be dealt with, and they should be allowed to be hunted like any other game animal. But, the species as a whole should not be persecuted or extirpated just because a human suffers a financial loss or someone trying to get back to nature gets attacked by a carnivore anymore than someone getting sprayed by a skunk is cause for exterminating all skunks.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2010
  10. killsnapz

    killsnapz G&G Evangelist

    Well speaking form someone who has actually owned raised and lived with wolves I can tell you your statement is 100% incorrect. Wolves kill for two reasons. For food and to protect their territory which is very rare when it does happen. They will kill humans. Especially small children for one reason only. They are easy prey. Farmers lose absolutely zero dollars to wolf kills because they are reimbursed 100% for the value of the livestock by the goverment. They are one of the few animals who's lifestyle closely mirrors humans. They are very neccesary to keep a proper balance in nature. The only animal that I know of that will kill just for sport is the domesticated cat.

    Wolf bite facts. A wolf has a bite that can generate over 1400 psi. For comparison it is about twice of what a German Shepard has. Basicly they could crush just about any bone in your body with one good bite.

    Michael
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2010
  11. killsnapz

    killsnapz G&G Evangelist

    Just be aware that there are plenty of people that would view you the same way that you view the wolves for the sake of the wolves.

    Michael
     
  12. killsnapz

    killsnapz G&G Evangelist

    A very intelligent and factual post as always Teach.

    Michael
     
  13. Archetype_wyo

    Archetype_wyo G&G Enthusiast


    That's fine...but I'm protecting the interests of long-standing residents...long standing the way of 100+ years the families have lived here. I'll gladly take the risk in the interests of the community.
     

  14. Yeah those wolves are awful we should just kill them who do they think they are?

    I get attacked by them all the time.
     
  15. There's not very many people up in northern Wisconsin (where I have 40 acres of hunting land) that like wolves. All they do is eat fawns and kill hunting dogs. One of my friends bear dogs was killed by a pack of wolves a few years ago. I no longer have sympathy for wolves...:mad:
     
  16. killsnapz

    killsnapz G&G Evangelist

    Why do humans think they have more rights to hunt for deer than a wolf does? If your hunting dog trespasses into territory that the pack has marked off as theirs it will be killed as a food threat not just for the heck of it. Native Americans hunted side by side for the same animals with wolves for a couple thousand years. Europeans come hear and the first thing they do when they make it out west is kill every wolf because they are hunting the same animals. A sad testament to our for fathers and it continues till this day. Maybe jealousy because the wolf is a far better hunter than any human could ever dream of being even with modern firearms?

    Michael
     

  17. My brother watched a pack of 10 wolves attack and kill my neighbors dog about 4 years ago right out in front of my house. He heard a dog barking in a panicky type bark so he went outside just in time to see a pack drag this dog out into the woods yelping. This happened in a decent sized neighborhood. There were 4 houses on the corner of where this happened. The dog was drug into the woods just outside of my house.

    A few years ago Just In Anchorage People were having there dogs attacked right in front of them when they went for a walk just down the road from there home.

    Im not saying they should all be killed by no meens. I really do like wolves they are fascinating animals BUT they do NOT need to be around Highly populated areas (like anchorage) where people can get hurt. Unlike Bears and cougers they work as a pack which makes them far more dangerous in my book. Your not dealing with one mind but many, and wolves are extreamly smart animals. My point being that if there are high numbers of wolves in a highly populated area where people live they need to be thinned down because they have and will attack people and there property (dogs,cats, cattle what ever) without warning. You may not have had run ins with them but I know several people that have. As far as out in the wild away from civilazation, they have a major impact on (atleast up here) Moose populations. Its a proven fact that when the wolf population booms the moose population drops. Wolves take by far much much more moose per year than people.

    To be honost Im tired of all the "save the wolves" crap because I have seen first hand what they can do and they have NO place being around towns or cities. If they start causing problums they either need to be reloacated or hunted to drop there numbers back down. Im sorry but a Human life is by far more important than a wolf.

    I dont know the full situation down there, but I know im getting tired of hearing all the save the wolf BS up here when there are massive numbers of wolves, and have been causing problums in the last 4-5 years in the sarrounding camunities and in of Alaskas BIGGEST city.

    Flame away. Im tired of Out of staters who have never been hear telling Alaskans what we should and shouldnt do with our land and our wild life.
     
  18. killsnapz

    killsnapz G&G Evangelist

    I can imaging that they are not in danger of extinction up in Alaska Charlie. I know these animals pretty well and I would have to agree with you. If they become to accustom to humans it can be very dangerous for pets and people. As much as I love them I can also see that there are situations where they would need to be deal with. I would not want my pet dragged off and killed either. The problem is they are probally one of the smartest hunters out in the wild. Like you said they not only hunt in packs the actually will use military type tactics. They will over watch an area and look for patterns and opportune times to strike. They will employee ambush tactics and flanking maneuvers. Once they have found that a town provides easy meals in pet dogs and such they will keep coming back. Hopefull they could be trapped and relocated but in this case people would not be out of line to shoot these particular wolves. They have no fear of humans and that is a very bad thing for an animal that is that smart and is capable of doing a great deal of damage.

    Michael
     
  19. toolman

    toolman Resident Sasquatch Forum Contributor

    FWIW, we run into the same situation down here with people whining about the "inhumane" killing of feral hogs from planes and helicopters. I don't know of many folks in Los Angeles, Chicago, or New York City dealing with crop damage from these cute lil porkers (that will eat your axx in a heartbeat if they can take you down). The latest reports cite damage estimates of $400,000,000\yr. and a population of over 2,000,000 in Tx. alone.
    My feeling is, WE're at the top of the food chain for one reason and one reason alone, ie: our willingness and desire to be there and I see no reason to give up that status because some tree-hugger thinks that wolves, hogs, rats, or mosquitos are "cute"\noble\or even (gasp!), AWESOME! I say grow up, show a little common sense with the culling and regulate the populations as is our duty.
     
  20. Archetype_wyo

    Archetype_wyo G&G Enthusiast


    killsnapz that's what I meant by the wolves killing and such. The areas they are moving into where there might have been a half dozen or so wolves over the entire mountain above Buffalo there are probably ALOT more now. The areas they are moving into are laden with more and more cabins every 5-10 years. It's only a matter of time. The animals preyed upon most up there are sheep, moose, and cattle. Wolves will wreak havoc more often than not on sheep and moose; moose being calves. If you do some reading about the Jackson, WY moose population you'll see that the once quite highly moose-populated area is now scarcely populated with the large animals.


    It comes down to conservation. The wolves aren't endangered anymore...time to start managing them.