close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

Security guards

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by taras, Aug 6, 2002.

  1. Are security considered law enforcement?? I retained my lic for the prov. but only do volunteer work for special events and festivals.
    If you are just out in crowds etc, you are not allowed a weapon, not even a baton. Every event I attend it sems at least one injury ocurs.
    Here in winnipeg, we have had numerous armed car roberys, shots exchanged and some have hit there target. These armed guards are given little training for such events, such a broad daylight robbery at a crowded supermarket.
    They deserve more respect, and perhaps more training aswell as practice. I also feel men protecting humans should be allowed to arm themselves if men protecting money can.
     
  2. Oxford

    Oxford G&G Evangelist

    Yes...security should be allowed to carry weapons.

    That's something courts will have to decide.

    My opinion, though, is that security personnel are an extension of LE, and are in place to assist the LE in upholding the existing laws. Because of the unique position they hold, and because of the dangers they may be subjected to, they should be allowed to carry weapons to be used, if necessary.

    Along with this allowance to carry weapons should be a requirement to learn to use these devices properly and under which occurances they should be used.

    Obviously, not all situations fall under categories A, B, or C. A lot of individual judgments must be made at the moment a situation arises. That's not the time to call up a lawyer.

    Oxford:nod:
     

  3. I can't speak for other states or municipalities but in Arizona security personnel are not considered law enforcement, although the law does allow security personnel the legal right to carry on-duty firearms (for personal protection and protection of others but not the right to use them to protect property unless the criminal's continued actions would make the prudent person believe there would be further impending physical harm to other persons).

    Security personnel don't take the oath to uphold laws and the state constitution, etc. and are not empowered to perform public arrests.

    They can, however, enforce detainment but with detainment the detainee has the legal right to leave at any time before any legal arrest is made my LE.

    In fact, the use of handcuffs by security personnel is walking a very fine line on an illegal arrest and detention. However, there are laws that allow anyone to make a private arrest (otherwise known as a citizen's arrest) but, again, in Arizona law it is only detention since most security personnel and private citizens are not trained in Miranda (another dumb case originating out of Arizona).

    I guess it would depend on the sitution as to the degree of support from LE and courts if security or private citizens used excessive detention practices.

    Not too long ago a civilian got involved in the end result of a high speed chase...beat the daylights outta the criminal with a bat and was given a big public pat on the back by police agencies, etc. It might also have to do with the large amount of press and TV news personnel applauding him for getting involved, lol.
     
  4. jerry

    jerry Since 2002 Forum Contributor

    19,954
    2,091
    USA
    Kind of off track. But a buddy of mine when I lived in Tucson was a Ranger. Many places have a ranger program with the trianing and pretty much most of the responsibilities afforded LE's They typically work "security" augmenteeing LE. Everyone iv'e met in the program has been stand up.
     
  5. Doglips

    Doglips G&G Newbie

    taras

    Your post got my attention.. Im an account manager for a large security guard company in Florida so I perk up at anything mentioning guards..
    The short answer is NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Security guards are "empowered" by the state laws...every state is diffrent. Some have Lic requirements others do not. The same goes for the company employeeing the guards...most have set policies.
    For examply in FLORIDA to be a security guard you have to have a state lic...called a "D" lic to be unarmed and a "G" to be armed. Florida requires 40 hours of training (24 up front 16 within 2 years) by a school or company with a Lic trainer. for a "D" lic and 24extra hours for a "G" which also includes a short qualfacation at the range. The execpetion is for guards employeed directly by a company (Called in house)...for example IF a Bank hires a "guard company" to provide service then you must have a lic. If the bank hires an employee to be a "Guard" then no lic.
    FLORIDA also has some messed up rules.. a "G" lic guard must carry a 38 Special 4" barrel with solid nose ammo. Companies can request a waver..some armored car companies carry 9mm.
    IN FLORIDA armed or unarmed the security guards job is to "Observe and Report"....not to stop or anything else..observer and report. Even Armed guards can only use the weapon if they can not escape the situation and only in self defense...theirs not yours...not to protect property, $$ ect...self defense ONLY.
    Now there are the "Exceptions" In my area the company that provides security for the Cape (ie NASA) work on FEDERAL property and carry MP-5s in full auto...give tickets ect...but they fall under federal statues.
    Finaly is the cost and liability...a person wanting to be a guard in florida pays a school (All amounts are general) (some companies train and take the $$ out of your check) $75 + $72 to the state for a lic. The "G" Lic cost $125 school + $125 State...by the way if you have a "G" and not a "D" then a "G" lic guard can not work unarmed post. Thats the guards $$...for this they get $7-8 per hour unarmed and $8-12 armed (in my area...Brinks pays like $9 for the truck guards)...the companies have to carry big time insurance (MY company carries million $$ pluss policies per POST) and the cost gets past un to the customer so a bank my get a bill for $25 per hour per guard...the guard gets $10 (I love being a pimp).
    IN MY AREA we have had a "Big increase" in bank robbeys so the banks (usaly after they get robbed) hire UNARMED guards...it is cheeper...and less liability...rember If a guard shoots someone the criminals family will sue in a hart beat....
    As for the training and additional training well asside from us gun nuts that think getting a catalog in the mail is a reason to go shooting...most compnies do not require any additional training for any guard (Our company has some advanced traing we are pushing but only for unarmed post)...most guards do not take their time and $$ to practice and the companies do not pay...you get 6 bullets and must return them.

    1 last thing....vest...for guards are NOT provided by most (I dont know of any) companies...want one take your $$ and get one..I cant donate 2 weeks pay to get a vest...and Im mangement...Try paying your billls on a guards wages and also buy a vest.

    Now the UNION states maybe diffrent but I dont know.
     
  6. NRAJOE

    NRAJOE YOU TALKIN' TO ME!? Forum Contributor

    I have been in security since 1979. In Kentucky I was allowed to carry a .38 with no schooling whatsoever. Here in Ohio we have no powers of arrest except for felony acts which must be personally observed or reported by multiple eye witnesses. Even then its only citizens arrest. I finally work inhouse for a hazmat company and can carry because its private property.
     
  7. Calvin

    Calvin G&G Newbie

    I work for NCR and am armed to protect their technicians when they work on ATM machines. In Ohio, not a lot of police officers like armed security officers. For some reason or other the police officers have to reaffirm the fact that being armed means nothing at all to them. Kinda like they have a complex about someone else being able to carry besides the police. Ohio law states security officers, armed or not, have no powers over a private citizen. Joe is correct on the arrest procedures, and you had better make sure you have the right person because if you don't, you're in for a TON of trouble.
     
  8. bigdog21

    bigdog21 G&G Newbie

    doglips, im a florida licensed security officer. Obviously you are not a licensed officer. security officers can use force to protect themselves and others and can make a citizens arrest like every other citizen that is the first thing you learn in the 16 hr class for you "d" license. there is nothing in the law that says we cant. the only restriction we have on force is we can use it to protect property. please make sure your info is correct before posting please and thank you.
     
  9. Big Dog

    Big Dog Retired IT Dinosaur Wrangler Forum Contributor

    Howdy, Bigdog21.
    Doglips info was accurate (remember, this thread is from '02) according to my experience as an unarmed guard up to the early nineties.
    Of course, the law can well have changed by now. Since all Florida citizens are now legally able to defend themselves without being required to attempt to escape first, this has probably changed the situation.
    Since I let my license lapse after I got my computer job, I'm not up on the latest rules and regs.
     
  10. Oxford

    Oxford G&G Evangelist

    This is a great older thread that has been revived.:nod:
     
  11. Stopper

    Stopper G&G Newbie

    I think every law abiding citizen should be allowed to carry - no exceptions for license or any of that BS - If you are a law abiding citizen you should be allowed to carry.
     
  12. Otter

    Otter G&G Newbie

    I had a friend, a state trooper in Connecticut, who was suspended for shooting an armed criminal because he admitted to haveing pulled his revolver from the holster before approching the suspect. Yet armed guards for a armoured truck company get away with walking in and out of banks with a revolver in their hand. Connecticut requires concealment. Unless you are in uniform, your weapon must be concealed on your person. It isn't legal to leave your pistol in your car to enter the Post Office. Armed guards get away with things that police officers can't. Massachusetts had an accidental shooting at an armoured truck company in West Springfield where the morons were playing quick draw and one guy shot himself. When the police showed up and checked everyone, less than a third of the armed guards had a license to carry. The company would hand out revolvers like candy bars.

    "Life is too important to be taken seriously."
     
  13. bigdog21

    bigdog21 G&G Newbie

    the retreat requirement was only for deadly force not non deadly. a cop told me technically taking three steps back would meet the retreat requirement then you could shoot.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2006