[Lonegun1894]

Here goes, Been wondering about something. Since it is legal for an individual to make their own handguns, shotguns, and rifles, what about this monster? What do yall think about a singleshot 12ga pistol, something along the lines of a TC contender/encore? I know this thing would kick like a pissed off mule, but just as food for thought/discussion. I doubt i'd ever be able to build this, lacking the machining skills and equipment. Here's the law as i understand it, so please correct me if i'm wrong here. A handgun, even when chambered for a shotgun shell, has to be rifled as being smoothbore and under 18 inches would make it a sawed-off shotgun. So if this was set up with rifling and used as a slug gun for deerseasen, would that provide the legal requirement or would it still be a felony. Think of it as an overgrown contender/encore, and we all know those things have been chambered for some impressive rounds. I've been told that any handgun over .50 is considered to be a destructive device, and that might be this things downfall. At the same time, this would be no different than the short-barreled shotguns that transfer with a $5 tax, and about 25yrs worth of paperwork. So what do yall think? Would this be a destructive device and therefore a big no-no, a SBS, or a hunting handgun? Any advice is appreciated as i would really like to stay out of ClubFed and wont knowingly break that set of laws. Right now, this is in the thinking/dreaming stage, and if i ever do decide to go ahead with this experiment, i would get a written ruling from the BATFE before proceeding. Thanks to all.
Paul

PS, I'm starting to think that BRG and I would have a fieldday if we were given a chance to play with some paper and crayons to design a few "freakish conversions" as his seem to have been baptized around here. So, BRG, if you see this, help.... :insane:

 

[lefty o]

in order to produce a short barreled shotgun, you will need to get a tax stamp from the ATF , i believe it falls under the AOW category.

 

[Otter]

A manufactured short shotgun would be AOW on the form 5. There is a 12 inch barreled pump gun with pistol grip thet can be worn under a jacket in a shoulded rig. The key here is to start with a receiver that was never a shotgun.

"life is too important to be taken seriously."

 

[NorCalAshnjikov]

given the BATFE's track record its a tricky business, so
best advice anyone can give you is ask your local batfe/ag office

Otter is on the right track The key here is to start with a receiver that was never a shotgun.
As long as you're building a pistol (one grip, rifled)
you should be fine

 

[Otter]

Find some who is a title 2 manufacturer, have a short shotgun made, he'll have to put his name on it. That is a manufactured short shotgun. register it with ATF on the BATF Form 5 as AOW (Any Other Weapon) for a five dollar tax stamp.
The chief of police in my home town did that many years ago. He has a pistol gripped pump with a 12.5 inch barrel, 5 round, that he wears in a should rig under his jacket for "Special Duty." There's no real reason for it, he just likes his "Toys."
Special Arms & Munitions in Schenectady New York is a Title II Manufacturer
[email protected] 518-372-9741.

"Life is too important to be taken seriously."

 

[Lonegun1894]

Thanks for the advice. The virgin reciever and rifling makes sense. What i was thinking was maybe like a NEF style break action--as in cheap--rifled pistol. Definitely not gonna go off and build it or have it built without getting in touch with the ATF boys to make sure i have the gummits blessing to not get locked up for it. Just think something like that would be fun to shoot, if not too painful, and ought to do a good job on these local whitetails. Been thinking 10 inch or so barrel, single-shot break action, adjustable open sights. Anyone have any ideas of any other special touches this should have or that might be useful? Thanks.
Paul

 

[rebel727]

They made some of these back in the 30's. Don't know about 12 guage but I have one in .410

 

[BattleRifleG3]

410 can be had in a pistol if it is also chambered for 45 Colt.

For the cheapest option on the NFA route, you'd be better off just buying a break action shotgun, applying to make a short barreled shotgun, and then just paying the $200 tax on that. Trying to save money the AOW route will be little help because it would have to be manufactured that way and that just ends up costing more money. NEF doesn't to my knowledge make AOWs and sell them to such dealers. Just paying $100 or less for a used NEF or H&R and just doing the paperwork, paying the $200 tax, and then sawing off the barrel will cost roughly $300. Find another actual option for that price and you can compare. On the good side for your uses, ATI now makes pistol grip stocks for NEF/H&R shotguns. Easy enough tokeep or cut off the buttstock part of it.

 

[rebel727]

410 can be had in a pistol if it is also chambered for 45 Colt.

QUOTE]

Yes, but that's with a rifled barrel. Shot doesn't pattern well with a rifled barrel. Mine's a smoothie made back in the 30's by Crescent.

 

[Lonegun1894]

I know .410 can be had, as i have a little side by side derringer chambered for .410/.45 Colt. It only has about an inch of rifling which i kinda doubt does a whole lot of good to be honest, but it makes it legal. What has me thinking legality on this, other than barrel lenght, is the caliber of this plinker. I have read that the original design for the Magnum Research Desert Eagle pistol called for .510 diameter bullets but was reduced to .500 due to .500 diameter being the largest caliber allowed in a handgun without it being classified as a "destructive device". I'm not quite sure what they think an extra .01 inch in diameter will do, but i'm not willing to argue the point from a cell either. Anyways. I haven't been able to find anything else on this law ever since but i wanna do things the legal way, even if i dont really agree with it. The taxes and manufacturing costs would still be lower than lawyer fees and other non-monetary setbacks suffered so legal is must stay. I have two of the NEFs right now, both 12ga, which is what got me thinking. I can always keep one stock and modify the other if/when legalities/funds permit. As has been said, anything chambered for a shotgun shell must be rifled, with the .410 sliding by easily due to chamber dimension similarities to a .45 colt. I want rifled anyways due to this being a slug gun to begin with.

BRG,
I'm not so sure about the chambering having to be dual (.410+ .45) due to the Contender having .410 only barrels available. Could easily be wrong so please correct me if i'm wrong. What gets the contender/encore legal though is that they are handguns to begin with, not modified to be such. My derringer was also manufactured as a handgun.

So far, i have the NEF shotgun to build on--IF legal. It is not a virgin reciever so may have to see about aquiring another, this time virgin one. So the only costs i am looking at is the rifled barrel that NEF sells for $58, which would then need to be cut. Have a friend that i used to be stationed with that at that time had a manufacturing license, might have to check if he still does and see if he can cut me a deal. BEyond that, i guess i'm looking at whatever uncle sam decides he wants as his bonus for a thumbs-up on this thing.

Then again, it'll probably be a while.

Paul

 

[BattleRifleG3]

Barrel only has to be rifled if it's non-NFA pistol, and would still have to be under 50 cal. If you're going NFA, just SBR an NEF H&R smoothbore and you'll probably have $300 total into it, that way you can have a stock or not as you like.

 

[practical]

Here's a related question. Say I pick up a double barrel shotgun that has a 28" Barrel. Can I leagally take a hacksaw to the last 10" of it?

 

[Calvin]

Yes, you can, Practical. Just make sure to measure the barrels with the action closed. Insert a dowel rod into the barrel(s) to make sure it's 18". It's been told to me that you can also measure the barrel itself on the outside and cut to 18". But, there can be as much as 1" difference between the 2 ways. 1" can land you serious jail time. Measuring with the dowel rod in the barrel(s) will be the safer bet.

 

[BattleRifleG3]

Yes. Some folks think you can't, but they're just plain wrong. They think unless a smith does it it's illegal. I'd suggest adding a quarter inch at least in case it's damaged and needs to be recrowned or something.

 

[practical]

If I were to pursue such a project, I would only get rid of 9 inches in order to ensure my continued liberty.

I imagine such a gun would still have quite a wider spread with the shorter barrel and what basically amounts to a cylinder bore.

 

[rebel727]

The shorter the barrel the wider the spread.

 

[practical]

Is there a minimum overall length for a shotgun? Or is it just the barrel that counts?

 

[Johnny_Revolver]

I`d be asking the local law, best to be sure in these circumstances.

 

[rebel727]

Is there a minimum overall length for a shotgun? Or is it just the barrel that counts?

26 inches.

 

[BattleRifleG3]

Correct, that is the federal law. State and local laws on the subject are rare, but some include classifying it as a pistol if there's no buttstock, or measuring the total length with a folding stock closed instead of open.