[Gray Wolf]

ROGER WHO????

Yes they did Gray Wolf. Not a bad way to go actually!

I hate spell check!

 

[ACfixer]

Get a Glock 20 gen 4 and swap it to the smaller grips. If that's still not enough, you can shave some off the higher "corners" of the polymer and make it feel much smaller. The hand can detect as much as a thousandth of an inch or two. Guitar players know this, they will use razor blade draw knives sometimes just to shave the neck down a hair to get the feel they're looking for.

Most of all OP, try to keep the sniveling down to a dull roar. I can hear you all the way from Tennessee.

 

[animalspooker]

I'm gonna take that guitar of yours and stick where the sun don't shine!!!

🤣

 

[Ranger4]

I am not sure where the 10mm fits into the SHTF world. In the most recent ammo depression I seldom saw 10mm. In fact I read about folks that bought the gun and did not get to shoot it for months.

One other thought, the Tangfolio and CZ 75 clones have the grip design that lets us guys with medium hands reach the grip very well. Good luck with finding one in 10mm. I have been looking for one for about 3 years and not found one at or below MSRP. I have one in 9mm that came in a trade. I was shocked at how nice they are for a full size gun. This would be my first choice on the market today. Keep in mind that most do not shoot the 10mm one handed, unless something is eating us. That said, with a two hand hold trigger reach is not such a problem since the off hand is holding the gun steady.

Also, when thinking about firing the 10mm, you will do any precision shooting better with a DA/SA model that will have a 2-3 pound trigger when in the SA mode. The SA mode has the trigger well to the rear of the carry mode, so it is shorter.

Another option and probably the most cost efficient is the new SW M and P 10mm. Holds 15 rounds and weighs an ounce or so less than the Glock. It comes with 4 backstraps, so you get to choose the shortest trigger reach.

Smith & Wesson M&P M2.0 15+1 Capacity 10mm Auto: Full Review - Handguns (handgunsmag.com)


Most people claim that to get the most out of the 10mm that you must get the longer 6 inch barrel. Ballistics by the Inch does not show that much difference. In the 200 grain bullet made for bear defense, the only difference is about 42 foot pounds, that is 577 with the 5 inch barrel and 612 with the 6 inch barrel. To keep things into perspective, a 357 with a 5 inch barrel and 158 grain bullets gives 530 foot pounds. If you compare Buffalo Bore loads between the two, you can get 783 foot pounds with a 180 grain bullet in 357 and 703 foot pounds with a 5 inch in 10mm. but it has the 220 grain bullet for more penetration.

So, to the OP, just depends on your use for it. If high capacity is the goal, then 10mm is the way to go. If it is for defending the homestead against bears during a SHTF era, then a 357 will get to the same level of protection. In a bear attack it is pretty rare for a person to get off all 6 rounds, the bear stops, or it does not pretty quick. Of course they have those 7 and 8 round 357s, lots of them around.

I find the charts helpful, YMMV. Here is the 357 power by barrel length.

And the 10mm.

Last comment as to recoil. I do not currently own a 10mm, but I have been shooting full power 400 Corbon in a 1911 for 12 years. Every pull of the trigger with factory loads or reloads is over 650 foot pounds. I put the felt recoil equal to my 44 mag pistols, I have three of them. The 400 Corbon is of course the poor man's 10mm, a 45 acp case necked down to 40 cal. Just saying......

Let us know what you decide.

 

[animalspooker]

Surprised more haven't mentioned the S&Ws. They are readily available and smaller in the grip...kinda like ACFixer is smaller in the short pants!

 

[Cyrano]

I stand with the people who are suggesting getting a revolver with cylinders you can change out for various calibers. Even if you have to build a little box to hold the cylinders and whatever tools you need to swap them out, in terms of cubic in your survival gear it is a sensible investment.

If you are looking for a pistol with a narrow grip, although the ammo is not as common as it once was I suggest getting yourself a Tokarev. (I prefer the Yugoslav Model 57 because it is a 9+1, but any Tok won't let you down.) They are thin, have little felt recoil (and what felt recoil there is can be eliminated by replacing the issue barrel bushing with an aftermarket muzzle brake built into the barrel bushing), and are powerful enough to kill a horse with one round at 25 meters. And they have one other virtue that might save your skin in combat: They speak with a voice of thunder. You know Harry Callahan's S&W Model 29? Its "bah-WHOOM" is a Hollywood sound effect. The Tokarev sounds just like that, but in the real world. And because their muzzle rise and felt recoil is minimal, it's easy to stay on target for a fast second shot.

 

[Ranger4]

I stand with the people who are suggesting getting a revolver with cylinders you can change out for various calibers. Even if you have to build a little box to hold the cylinders and whatever tools you need to swap them out, in terms of cubic in your survival gear it is a sensible investment.

The convertible cylinder guns have always made sense to me. I have the Ruger Single Six, 5.5 inch single action with the extra 22 mag cylinder. The Heritage Arms version is a bargain and good guns. The 22 mag in a handgun is certainly powerful enough for small game as far as you can shoot it. The 38/357 is a no brainer and most folks have them. I also have the 9mm cylinder for the 38/357 Ruger Blackhawk.

I have a couple 45 Colt single action guns that have 45 acp cylinders, again a no brainer. I took a chance and bought a Smith and Wesson Governor, and boy was I surprised. Lots of people trashed the idea of a 410 pistol. That one is scandium alloy and only weighs 29.5 ounces even though it is an N frame.

I shoot the 45 acp with moon clips in it more than anything else because they are fun and I can load them cheap. In the boonies I carry the 45 Colt Hornady Leverevolution rounds in it and of course the various 410 shotshells. With the Federal buckshot load it will put all 4 000 buck into about a 12 inch circle at 50 feet, about like four 32 acp at once. Actually, it is 280 grains of bullet at about 850 fps. For those who reload, the 410 is about as cheap as anything to reload, only the primer costs much.

Another suggestion I have is the chamber adapters. I have the 410 shotgun adapters that let me shoot 9mm in the Governor. I also have them in both 20 gauge and 12 gauge that let me shoot 9mm in those guns. You can get them to fit the single shot and double or over under shotguns in every pistol round there is. They are accurate with the rifled version quite a way, the smooth bore that I have are coke can accurate to 30-40 feet, basically OK for rabbits close. I like to walk around with my 410 double with both chambers firing the 9mm, or one 9mm and one birdshot, just a lot of versatility. The 12 gauge adapters in 38/357 make a lot of sense along with the 9mm and 45 acp.

I also note that lots of semi autos now have drop in barrels that provide for a caliber change. I do not own a Glock 23 but think I will add one to the pile. A simple conversion barrel converts the gun to 9mm or 357 Sig, that is probably the single most SHTF conversion out there. All you need in your bug out bag is the barrel and a mag the size of the new caliber.

I was looking at my stash of survival gear. I am thinking I need to 2 ton truck for my basic stuff. Maybe I am getting a little too much.

 

[Cyrano]

I have a couple 45 Colt single action guns that have 45 acp cylinders, again a no brainer. I took a chance and bought a Smith and Wesson Governor, and boy was I surprised. Lots of people trashed the idea of a 410 pistol. That one is scandium alloy and only weighs 29.5 ounces even though it is an N frame.

I shoot the 45 acp with moon clips in it more than anything else because they are fun and I can load them cheap. In the boonies I carry the 45 Colt Hornady Leverevolution rounds in it and of course the various 410 shotshells. With the Federal buckshot load it will put all 4 000 buck into about a 12 inch circle at 50 feet, about like four 32 acp at once. Actually, it is 280 grains of bullet at about 850 fps. For those who reload, the 410 is about as cheap as anything to reload, only the primer costs much.

Out of curiosity, are your moon clips made of synthetics or sheet steel? I use synthetics with my S&W Model 25, because I've found both clipping up and removing the spent cases from the metal moon clips is difficult unless you have a special tool which looks like a piece of pipe on a screwdriver handle.

 

[Ranger4]

Out of curiosity, are your moon clips made of synthetics or sheet steel? I use synthetics with my S&W Model 25, because I've found both clipping up and removing the spent cases from the metal moon clips is difficult unless you have a special tool which looks like a piece of pipe on a screwdriver handle.

The moon clips I use are all steel. Some are Ranch Products brand and some are Wilson Combat brand. They all work just great and I have never had one fail. I am pretty hard on things and would be concerned that the synthetics might break.

I have two types of removal tools. One is the short pipe with a portion cut out that just fits over the brash and with a short turn flips them out. The other is a little S shaped piece of metal, just goes around one brass and flips them out.
The little pipe tool, I am told can be made easily out of a piece of pvc pipe or conduit. or PEC tubing. I may make a couple and leave one in my range and other places.

I have wrist and hand problems and loading mags or clips is big, painful event. So, I buy lots of magazines and clips for each gun and when I go shooting, I usually do not do much if any reloading of clips or mag. I think I have enough for the 45 aacp for nearly 300 rounds. I keep some loaded with 45 ball, some cast, and some gallery loads, and some with Plus P self defense loads. If I am carrying the gun anywhere other than the range, I will leave 4-5 moon clips in the console of my truck, just like I would speed loaders for my other wheel guns.

I also have a few of the 2 round moon clips but do not use them much. In the Governor I can mix and match 45 Colt and 410 and if I want 45 acp, I just load a full 6 rounds.

Here are the tools I have to remove the brass.

The Wilson Combat moon clips are $10.82 for 5 and the Ranch Products about $2 each and some off name brands at 10/$16.50. .10 - S&W 625 / 25 - 45 ACP - FULL MOON CLIPS- moonclips - 1917 & Governor #B5 | eBay Pic below.
Wilson, then Ebay sold in units of 10.

I think lots of moon clips are far overpriced, I use them quickly and am not easy with them and never had one bend or fail, so I just buy the cheapest.

 

[Palladin8]

SIg makes or used to make the 220 in 10mm but you are going to pay for it.

The newer generation Glocks come with different backstraps to tailor to almost every hand size. I have the Model 40 and have tried using all of the grips but settled on the second to smallest backstrap. I was looking to buy a Long slide Witness Hunter like my friends but couldn't find one and when I did it was about $1200 and I couldn't afford it at the time. I prefer the feel of the CZ style grip over most any other handgun grip out there. They just feel as if they were made for my hands.

During the Pandemic and after the election the one hand gun ammo I saw on the shelves regularly was 40 S&W. 9mm was like 22lr during the Obama years, It was non existent.
A 10mm will shoot the 40 S&W in a pinch but I would recommend against a steady diet of it.

 

[animalspooker]

I found a refurbished Glock (must be the first one ever to need that?) and I settled on the second smallest backstrap. Size was surprising. Remember other 10mm Glocks being huge but this was not bad…maybe my hands are growing, wish something else would!

 

[Palladin8]

I found a refurbished Glock (must be the first one ever to need that?) and I settled on the second smallest backstrap. Size was surprising. Remember other 10mm Glocks being huge but this was not bad…maybe my hands are growing, wish something else would!

Just don't try and pull it or your eye sight might go bad!!