Jesse - I think most who have faced the SKS in combat, or used them in combat know all too well how effective they are, and don't want to talk about it!
SKS in Combat
Ok guys,
I've always wanted to know more about the SKS's performance and history in combat. I'd like anyone who has firsthand experience, reliable testimony, or historical data from credible research concerning the SKS's performance in combat. Please be specific, since this will enhance the thread's contents and serve as a really good reference for those who may own and respect the SKS, but know little of its combat origins.
What I need in each post are:
1)How you obtained this knowledge
2)How reliable was the SKS (loading,feeding)
3)How did the SKS compare against other rifles
4)How did the user load/execute in combat for speed
5)How was accuracy and penetration
6)Did the SKS perform in averse conditions
7)On a scale of 1-10 how would you rate the SKS
(rate in Poll)
8)Be sure to include all specifics possible
This should make an interesting thread...
Jesse
I've always wanted to know more about the SKS's performance and history in combat. I'd like anyone who has firsthand experience, reliable testimony, or historical data from credible research concerning the SKS's performance in combat. Please be specific, since this will enhance the thread's contents and serve as a really good reference for those who may own and respect the SKS, but know little of its combat origins.
What I need in each post are:
1)How you obtained this knowledge
2)How reliable was the SKS (loading,feeding)
3)How did the SKS compare against other rifles
4)How did the user load/execute in combat for speed
5)How was accuracy and penetration
6)Did the SKS perform in averse conditions
7)On a scale of 1-10 how would you rate the SKS
(rate in Poll)
8)Be sure to include all specifics possible
This should make an interesting thread...
Jesse
1 - 5 of 210 Posts
All I can say is that the aimed shot is the one that hits, spray and pray will empty your pack load quickly, and select fire is not nearly as good as the aimed shot.
That said, the SKS will definitely do the job, at ranges out to 400 - 500 meters. (The claim is that now days we should plan our combat within 300 meters, not 400 to 500 yards as we planned for WWII.) The SKS reloads very quickly, with its' 10 round stripper clips, you might lose a couple of shots as compared to a magazine reload.
As far as accuracy, I have said it before, I have chased a coffee cup with 10 shots standing, at 150 yards hitting it every shot, and that is good enough to hit a head or the center of a human on the go. In combat, you don't get much better than that, except with a real high power rifle.
A friend tried the same with a select fire AK-47, and hit 3 out of 10 shots (I tried the AK and hit 2 out of 10 shots). The same was tried with a M16 3 round burst and again 3 hits out of 10 shots, on the same cup. Some of these misses with the AK-47 and M16, were as far as 10 feet. I again took the SKS and hit 9 out of 10 more. The accuracy edge lies with the aimed shot, and semi-auto(SKS, AK-47, or AR-15) will always be more accurate than a 3 round burst or full auto.
The M1 Garand has it all over these lightweight medium power 7.62 x 39, 2.45 x 39, 5.56 x 45 cartridges, because the .30-06 can break down barricades, punch through light armor, and make a very bad day for someone inside, when the medium power cartridges will dent and rattle the barricades or light armor, while the enemy sits safe and tight. Very few light armored vehicles that we see are safe from the .30-06 with AP, and many of them are not safe from a 165 grain soft point .30-06, all the way out to 800 yards or more.
The .308 (7.62 x 51) is not quite as good as the .30-06, but will still be almost as effective out to 550 to 600 yrds. This is why the Special Ops guys want the M14, for its' hitting power.
Give me a rifle with a Walnut stock for combat!!!
That said, the SKS will definitely do the job, at ranges out to 400 - 500 meters. (The claim is that now days we should plan our combat within 300 meters, not 400 to 500 yards as we planned for WWII.) The SKS reloads very quickly, with its' 10 round stripper clips, you might lose a couple of shots as compared to a magazine reload.
As far as accuracy, I have said it before, I have chased a coffee cup with 10 shots standing, at 150 yards hitting it every shot, and that is good enough to hit a head or the center of a human on the go. In combat, you don't get much better than that, except with a real high power rifle.
A friend tried the same with a select fire AK-47, and hit 3 out of 10 shots (I tried the AK and hit 2 out of 10 shots). The same was tried with a M16 3 round burst and again 3 hits out of 10 shots, on the same cup. Some of these misses with the AK-47 and M16, were as far as 10 feet. I again took the SKS and hit 9 out of 10 more. The accuracy edge lies with the aimed shot, and semi-auto(SKS, AK-47, or AR-15) will always be more accurate than a 3 round burst or full auto.
The M1 Garand has it all over these lightweight medium power 7.62 x 39, 2.45 x 39, 5.56 x 45 cartridges, because the .30-06 can break down barricades, punch through light armor, and make a very bad day for someone inside, when the medium power cartridges will dent and rattle the barricades or light armor, while the enemy sits safe and tight. Very few light armored vehicles that we see are safe from the .30-06 with AP, and many of them are not safe from a 165 grain soft point .30-06, all the way out to 800 yards or more.
The .308 (7.62 x 51) is not quite as good as the .30-06, but will still be almost as effective out to 550 to 600 yrds. This is why the Special Ops guys want the M14, for its' hitting power.
Give me a rifle with a Walnut stock for combat!!!
BattleRifleG3 - Your demonstration will open more than a few eyes, I am sure. I have never doubted the accuracy of any bolt or semi-auto, and I do not doubt the ability of the medium power rifles to kill or wound severely, but they will only do that when there is no protection for the enemy.
Reminds me of the Iraqi tanks being placed in berms made of sand to protect them from direct fire of the American tanks. The Iraqui's found out very quickly that their tanks were not a good place to be near at any time because our 120mm shots were going through the berms and then blowing up the Iraqui tanks. Shear power overcoming a barricade.
Sorry about the misnumbering, I had intended to write 5.45 x 39, not 2.45 x 39, sometimes the brain signal goes to the wrong finger.
"The M1 Garand has it all over these lightweight medium power 7.62 x 39, 2.45 x 39, 5.56 x 45 cartridges, because the .30-06 can break down barricades, punch through light armor, . . ."
My apologies to all, but I think you knew what cartridge I was referring to.
"He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one." - Jesus, Luke 22:36
Reminds me of the Iraqi tanks being placed in berms made of sand to protect them from direct fire of the American tanks. The Iraqui's found out very quickly that their tanks were not a good place to be near at any time because our 120mm shots were going through the berms and then blowing up the Iraqui tanks. Shear power overcoming a barricade.
Sorry about the misnumbering, I had intended to write 5.45 x 39, not 2.45 x 39, sometimes the brain signal goes to the wrong finger.
"The M1 Garand has it all over these lightweight medium power 7.62 x 39, 2.45 x 39, 5.56 x 45 cartridges, because the .30-06 can break down barricades, punch through light armor, . . ."
My apologies to all, but I think you knew what cartridge I was referring to.
"He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one." - Jesus, Luke 22:36
Sutro - Your understanding about the Russian effort to determine the most effective cartridge is the generally accepted explanation, and no doubt correct.
Marines are not your average infantryman. To a Marine, shooting is a way of life; EVERY Marine is a rifleman, and EVERY Marine, including the Commandant of the Marine Corps, has to qualify at least once every year (in peacetime), and everyday in combat. It was out to 500 yards, and now to 600 meters (656 yards)
In Korea, may GOD BLESS ALL OF THOSE MEN WHO FOUGHT THERE!!! The 1st Marine Division went into the Chosen Reservoir with about 14,000 Marines, including some small U. S. Army Units, some British Royal Marines, some Greeks, Some Turks, and a few nondescript others, and due to the weather, sporadic air support. A Marine Division of the time was made up of about 19,000 when at full strength.
We, 14,000 men were surrounded by 8 ChiCom Divisions, and they had 12 ChiCom Divisions in Reserve, at the start of the Chosen Reservoir battle, there were somewhere around 160,000 Chinese Regular Professional Soldiers. We had to fight for our lives, and proceeded to walk out through some of the most terrible conditions, including constant enemy fire of those ChiCom Soldiers. When we reached Hungnam, the ChiCom Divisions had been reduced to the fact that several of their Divisions no longer existed, and ALL of them had been severely reduced in numbers. After that, it was the Washington D.C. Politicians who kept us from finishing what had been started.
The SKS was used, but not in large numbers, it was very effective in close. We could and did pick them off with our Garands beyond their effective range quite readily. If the Politicians in Washington D.C. had supported the troops in Korea as they had supported the troops in WWII, there would be no North Korea, there would be only one Korea, and we may have had to take on the ChiComs, on their home territory, in the process. Once we went into Korea, the ChiComs were really afraid we might just go into China and Kick the Communists out.
As to Viet Nam, may GOD BLESS ALL OF THOSE MEN WHO FOUGHT THERE TOO!!! It was again a case of the Politicians failing to support those they so freely sent into harms way. The soldiers, sailors, and Marines never lost a battle in Viet Nam, they lost everything in Washington D.C. None of the Politicians who caused so much misery should be able to hold his/her head upright.
I have to add this: I don't trust McCain, keep in mind he was quite thoroughly brainwashed by the NVA, while a POW, and I believe it shows.
Marines are not your average infantryman. To a Marine, shooting is a way of life; EVERY Marine is a rifleman, and EVERY Marine, including the Commandant of the Marine Corps, has to qualify at least once every year (in peacetime), and everyday in combat. It was out to 500 yards, and now to 600 meters (656 yards)
In Korea, may GOD BLESS ALL OF THOSE MEN WHO FOUGHT THERE!!! The 1st Marine Division went into the Chosen Reservoir with about 14,000 Marines, including some small U. S. Army Units, some British Royal Marines, some Greeks, Some Turks, and a few nondescript others, and due to the weather, sporadic air support. A Marine Division of the time was made up of about 19,000 when at full strength.
We, 14,000 men were surrounded by 8 ChiCom Divisions, and they had 12 ChiCom Divisions in Reserve, at the start of the Chosen Reservoir battle, there were somewhere around 160,000 Chinese Regular Professional Soldiers. We had to fight for our lives, and proceeded to walk out through some of the most terrible conditions, including constant enemy fire of those ChiCom Soldiers. When we reached Hungnam, the ChiCom Divisions had been reduced to the fact that several of their Divisions no longer existed, and ALL of them had been severely reduced in numbers. After that, it was the Washington D.C. Politicians who kept us from finishing what had been started.
The SKS was used, but not in large numbers, it was very effective in close. We could and did pick them off with our Garands beyond their effective range quite readily. If the Politicians in Washington D.C. had supported the troops in Korea as they had supported the troops in WWII, there would be no North Korea, there would be only one Korea, and we may have had to take on the ChiComs, on their home territory, in the process. Once we went into Korea, the ChiComs were really afraid we might just go into China and Kick the Communists out.
As to Viet Nam, may GOD BLESS ALL OF THOSE MEN WHO FOUGHT THERE TOO!!! It was again a case of the Politicians failing to support those they so freely sent into harms way. The soldiers, sailors, and Marines never lost a battle in Viet Nam, they lost everything in Washington D.C. None of the Politicians who caused so much misery should be able to hold his/her head upright.
I have to add this: I don't trust McCain, keep in mind he was quite thoroughly brainwashed by the NVA, while a POW, and I believe it shows.
The only magazines that work well in the SKS are the original 10 round nonremoveable magazines. I have had people brag about how well "their" 30 round removeable magazine works, and when they began to show me, it had the same high failure rate that all of the other removeable 30 round magazines have shown me.
Of course that was before the "Assault Weapon Ban" in California which is still in force, and is a moot point here in California, now, as an SKS with a removeable magazine is an "ILLEGAL" weapon, and could cause a lot of legal problems. The SKS with a removeable magazine didn't even qualify as an Assault Weapon, it was defined as an "ILLEGAL" weapon, and banned the same as all Class 3 NFA firearms, from private citizen ownership, in California. That didn't credit it with some legitimacy, as to effectiveness, it was the decision of Politicians that have little to no firearms knowledge!
`
Of course that was before the "Assault Weapon Ban" in California which is still in force, and is a moot point here in California, now, as an SKS with a removeable magazine is an "ILLEGAL" weapon, and could cause a lot of legal problems. The SKS with a removeable magazine didn't even qualify as an Assault Weapon, it was defined as an "ILLEGAL" weapon, and banned the same as all Class 3 NFA firearms, from private citizen ownership, in California. That didn't credit it with some legitimacy, as to effectiveness, it was the decision of Politicians that have little to no firearms knowledge!
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1 - 5 of 210 Posts
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