[Bill Schiltz]

I have a rifle my father brought back from Burma/China after WWII. It was previously misidentified as a Steyr Mannlicher Model 1895. I’m now convinced it is a Steyr 1901(Dutch Mannlicher?); it is fitted with a Japanese Aisan Kogyo Arsenal Model 30 bayonet. I assume the Japanese captured the rifle and modified the bayonet to fit. The rifle is 51” overall with a barrel length around 31”. Stamped into the rifle is “Steyr 1901” and on another spot what I assume is the serial number “3530A”. It has a rotating bolt as opposed to the Model 1895 straight bolt. Again, my confusion was over the bolt configuration and conflicting online identification; I kept getting directed to the Model 1895 or M95. Can anyone verify that I have a Steyr 1901? Does the serial number, 3530A, say anything about the rifle? Any information would be helpful, I’m writing a journal of my father’s wartime experience.

 

[Cyrano]

Welcome to the Forum from the Peoples Democratic Republic of New York, Bill.

One general note: When you are posting in a public forum, don't post a firearm's entire serial number. In this case, I'd have put it up as "XX30A." If an expert on Steyrs says, "Give me the whole thing and I will see what my books tell me," PM him with the s/n. Just a standard safety procedure.

Photos would be a big help here. Can you post any?

 

[Cyrano]

I just used some fast Google Fu, and I have a couple of questions.

First, the only "Steyr Model 1901" I turned up was of a semi-auto pistol with an internal magazine in a caliber called "7.63 Mannlicher." I don't think that cartridge is still being manufactured.

I turned up references to two different Model 1895 rifles made by Steyr. The first is a straight pull bolt action adopted by a variety of countries as their main battle rifle. The second is the Mannlicher–Schönauer, a turnbolt rifle with an unusual magazine that puts me in mind of the Ruger 10/22.

There is also the Steyr M95, a conventional turnbolt rifle that loaded its ammo in 5 round en bloc clips inserted from the top, with the en bloc clip dropping out a slot in the bottom of the magazine when emptied. The Dutch issued a couple of variants of this rifle to the Netherlands East Indian Army, particularly the carbine version, which was modified to include an integral muzzle brake to reduce the felt recoil for the benefit of the smaller Indonesian soldiers.

I was tempted by one at a gun shop very seriously. It's a well balanced carbine that handles well. Two things finally put me off buying it.

First, I wasn't sure what caliber it was; the stampings on the receiver were confusing. The Dutch first issued the M95 in 6.5x53R. Then many were rechambered for .303 British. After the fall of the Netherlands East Indies, the Japanese took the rifles over and rechambered them for 7.7 Arisaka. The shop owner couldn't say for sure which cartridge it took and could not test it with the three possibilities, having none of the three possibilities in stock. And two out of the three cartridges are obsolete, expensive as hell if you can find them at all, and generally require you to take up reloading if you want to shoot the rifle. Off-putting, at least to me.

Second, the en bloc clips for the M95 are difficult to find, and you can't really shoot the rifle without them. Much as I liked the feel of that carbine, I did not want to hunt for the Holy Grailto get the clips so I could shoot it. I'd been down that road with my early Ruger Mark I target model pistol. Ruger changed the magazine for the later version of that pistol, and trying to find early magazines to fit it was a non-trivial chore.

So I passed on buying the M95 carbine.

As I said, pictures would help a great deal. Left side, right side, closeups of the action from both sides, and a photo of the stampings in the receiver. It would help if you rubbed chalk on the stampings so we could see them better. But I am sure someone on the site will be able to help you out. Lots of us, including me, like to track down the where and whens of old guns.

 

[Bill Schiltz]

I just used some fast Google Fu, and I have a couple of questions.

First, the only "Steyr Model 1901" I turned up was of a semi-auto pistol with an internal magazine in a caliber called "7.63 Mannlicher." I don't think that cartridge is still being manufactured.

I turned up references to two different Model 1895 rifles made by Steyr. The first is a straight pull bolt action adopted by a variety of countries as their main battle rifle. The second is the Mannlicher–Schönauer, a turnbolt rifle with an unusual magazine that puts me in mind of the Ruger 10/22.

There is also the Steyr M95, a conventional turnbolt rifle that loaded its ammo in 5 round en bloc clips inserted from the top, with the en bloc clip dropping out a slot in the bottom of the magazine when emptied. The Dutch issued a couple of variants of this rifle to the Netherlands East Indian Army, particularly the carbine version, which was modified to include an integral muzzle brake to reduce the felt recoil for the benefit of the smaller Indonesian soldiers.

I was tempted by one at a gun shop very seriously. It's a well balanced carbine that handles well. Two things finally put me off buying it.

First, I wasn't sure what caliber it was; the stampings on the receiver were confusing. The Dutch first issued the M95 in 6.5x53R. Then many were rechambered for .303 British. After the fall of the Netherlands East Indies, the Japanese took the rifles over and rechambered them for 7.7 Arisaka. The shop owner couldn't say for sure which cartridge it took and could not test it with the three possibilities, having none of the three possibilities in stock. And two out of the three cartridges are obsolete, expensive as hell if you can find them at all, and generally require you to take up reloading if you want to shoot the rifle. Off-putting, at least to me.

Second, the en bloc clips for the M95 are difficult to find, and you can't really shoot the rifle without them. Much as I liked the feel of that carbine, I did not want to hunt for the Holy Grailto get the clips so I could shoot it. I'd been down that road with my early Ruger Mark I target model pistol. Ruger changed the magazine for the later version of that pistol, and trying to find early magazines to fit it was a non-trivial chore.

So I passed on buying the M95 carbine.

As I said, pictures would help a great deal. Left side, right side, closeups of the action from both sides, and a photo of the stampings in the receiver. It would help if you rubbed chalk on the stampings so we could see them better. But I am sure someone on the site will be able to help you out. Lots of us, including me, like to track down the where and whens of old guns.

 

[Cyrano]

Bill, what happened to your comment?

 

[Bill Schiltz]

I've spent a lot of time Googling and have gotten a lot of conflicting info. Your history of the M.95 is in line with what I've come across. If the "STEYR 1901" does not indicate the rifle model then what is it? Place and date of manufacture? I have found reference to a 1901 carbine but this is no carbine. It is long and heavy. Mine is probably the M.95.

 

[Cyrano]

I've spent a lot of time Googling and have gotten a lot of conflicting info. Your history of the M.95 is in line with what I've come across. If the "STEYR 1901" does not indicate the rifle model then what is it? Place and date of manufacture? I have found reference to a 1901 carbine but this is no carbine. It is long and heavy. Mine is probably the M.95.

Fast way to tell is take a look at the bottom of the magazine. If it is an M95, there will be a slot in the bottom of the magazine where you would not normally expect to see an opening.

 

[mouser868]

It's n

Fast way to tell is take a look at the bottom of the magazine. If it is an M95, there will be a slot in the bottom of the magazine where you would not normally expect to see an opening.

It's not an M95, the bolt it wrong

 

[rando]

You have a Model 1893 Infantry rifle. That is also a five round rifle but turn bolt. The M1895 carbines were straight pull rotary type bolt. They were Austrian and Hungarian. Also other countries. I have a few of them.

 

[rando]

They were made from 1893 to 1938. I think you said yours is stamped 1901. That is the Year of Manufacture on it. Is yours chambered in 8x50R or 6.5x53? Many of the 1895 straight pull carbines were chambered in 8x50R also. Most were converted to 8x56R. That is designated by a large letter " S" stamped on top of receiver, I have also seen a few converted to 8x57 Mauser in the M95 Straight pull Carbines

 

[Bill Schiltz]

They were made from 1893 to 1938. I think you said yours is stamped 1901. That is the Year of Manufacture on it. Is yours chambered in 8x50R or 6.5x53? Many of the 1895 straight pull carbines were chambered in 8x50R also. Most were converted to 8x56R. That is designated by a large letter " S" stamped on top of receiver, I have also seen a few converted to 8x57 Mauser in the M95 Straight pull Carbines

They were made from 1893 to 1938. I think you said yours is stamped 1901. That is the Year of Manufacture on it. Is yours chambered in 8x50R or 6.5x53? Many of the 1895 straight pull carbines were chambered in 8x50R also. Most were converted to 8x56R. That is designated by a large letter " S" stamped on top of receiver, I have also seen a few converted to 8x57 Mauser in the M95 Straight pull Carbines

You have a Model 1893 Infantry rifle. That is also a five round rifle but turn bolt. The M1895 carbines were straight pull rotary type bolt. They were Austrian and Hungarian. Also other countries. I have a few of them.

They were made from 1893 to 1938. I think you said yours is stamped 1901. That is the Year of Manufacture on it. Is yours chambered in 8x50R or 6.5x53? Many of the 1895 straight pull carbines were chambered in 8x50R also. Most were converted to 8x56R. That is designated by a large letter " S" stamped on top of receiver, I have also seen a few converted to 8x57 Mauser in the M95 Straight pull Carbines

I found the Model 1893 on line and it seems to be identical to mine except for the length of the barrel and the overall length. According to Wikipedia the 1893 is about two inches shorter for both the barrel and overall length. I do not know what round it's chambered for. Without going to a gunsmith I don't know how to do anything other than measure the bore at the muzzle. I measure 6.85 with an inexpensive caliper so I suppose I could assume it is the 6.5 X 53.

 

[rando]

I found the Model 1893 on line and it seems to be identical to mine except for the length of the barrel and the overall length. According to Wikipedia the 1893 is about two inches shorter for both the barrel and overall length. I do not know what round it's chambered for. Without going to a gunsmith I don't know how to do anything other than measure the bore at the muzzle. I measure 6.85 with an inexpensive caliper so I suppose I could assume it is the 6.5 X 53.

The caliber has to be stamped on barrel somewhere. It may be worn a bit. Also your rifle was made in full length and carbine length

 

[Bill Schiltz]

The caliber has to be stamped on barrel somewhere. It may be worn a bit. Also your rifle was made in full length and carbine length

All I have to go on is what I read on Wikipedia for whatever it's worth. Wikipedia says the lengths are 48.3" and 28.5". You have a few, what are your measurements? I've looked over the barrel with a microscope and assuming the caliber was stamped on it, it's gone now. How did it end up in Burma with the Japanese?

 

[rando]

All I have to go on is what I read on Wikipedia for whatever it's worth. Wikipedia says the lengths are 48.3" and 28.5". You have a few, what are your measurements? I've looked over the barrel with a microscope and assuming the caliber was stamped on it, it's gone now. How did it end up in Burma with the Japanese?

Bill I have no idea how the rifle came from Burma. It is definitely an M1893 though. I dont have that particular model but do have other Steyr rifles. I also have several of the 1895 straight pull carbines. I know most rifles from 1880,s on up because I have studied military surplus rifles and I have a huge collection of them. I have collected for over 40 years. The thing about yours coming back from Burma is hard to say. Look at some of the strange rifles confiscated from Vietnam War and Iraqi war, Afghanistan etc. I mean they have found Carcano's, Mosin Nagants and more in these countries. There is a mix of everything so anything is possible. I am not sure if the caliber is worn on yours. It has to be more markings on it, barrel, receiver or somewhere. You can even just get an idea by taking any 6.5 caliber and trying it in end of barrel. If it is close but tight and wont go in then may be the 6.5. If it pushes right in then should and probably be the 8mm. You may have access to a 8mm Mauser bullet and try that after you try the 6.5. If you cant find ANY markings or writing on rifle barrel or reveiver then may have to take to a gunsmith

 

[Bill Schiltz]

Bill I have no idea how the rifle came from Burma. It is definitely an M1893 though. I dont have that particular model but do have other Steyr rifles. I also have several of the 1895 straight pull carbines. I know most rifles from 1880,s on up because I have studied military surplus rifles and I have a huge collection of them. I have collected for over 40 years. The thing about yours coming back from Burma is hard to say. Look at some of the strange rifles confiscated from Vietnam War and Iraqi war, Afghanistan etc. I mean they have found Carcano's, Mosin Nagants and more in these countries. There is a mix of everything so anything is possible. I am not sure if the caliber is worn on yours. It has to be more markings on it, barrel, receiver or somewhere. You can even just get an idea by taking any 6.5 caliber and trying it in end of barrel. If it is close but tight and wont go in then may be the 6.5. If it pushes right in then should and probably be the 8mm. You may have access to a 8mm Mauser bullet and try that after you try the 6.5. If you cant find ANY markings or writing on rifle barrel or reveiver then may have to take to a gunsmith

Rando, I might have stumbled on the answer. I found data on a Model 1895 called the Dutch Mannlicher as opposed to the Austrian Mannlicher. The Dutch version has a rotating bolt, the Austrian version a straight pull bolt. The lengths fit my rifle and the history works. Dutch used the rifle in the East Indies and I suppose it fell into Japanese hands when they overran the Dutch. Thanks for your help, I'll attach a link to the article I found. https://military.wikia.org/wiki/Dutch_Mannlicher

 

[Cyrano]

Rando, I might have stumbled on the answer. I found data on a Model 1895 called the Dutch Mannlicher as opposed to the Austrian Mannlicher. The Dutch version has a rotating bolt, the Austrian version a straight pull bolt. The lengths fit my rifle and the history works. Dutch used the rifle in the East Indies and I suppose it fell into Japanese hands when they overran the Dutch. Thanks for your help, I'll attach a link to the article I found. https://military.wikia.org/wiki/Dutch_Mannlicher

That certainly looks like the carbine that tempted me, but without the muzzle brake.

I think you may have to resort to a chamber casting to determine the cartridge it is meant to use. There are members here who know about this, and I hope they will chime in. Barring that, you'll have to locate a gunsmith and pay him to do the work.

 

[Bill Schiltz]

That certainly looks like the carbine that tempted me, but without the muzzle brake.

I think you may have to resort to a chamber casting to determine the cartridge it is meant to use. There are members here who know about this, and I hope they will chime in. Barring that, you'll have to locate a gunsmith and pay him to do the work.

Mine is definitely not a carbine but apparently it was available

That certainly looks like the carbine that tempted me, but without the muzzle brake.

I think you may have to resort to a chamber casting to determine the cartridge it is meant to use. There are members here who know about this, and I hope they will chime in. Barring that, you'll have to locate a gunsmith and pay him to do the work.

That certainly looks like the carbine that tempted me, but without the muzzle brake.

I think you may have to resort to a chamber casting to determine the cartridge it is meant to use. There are members here who know about this, and I hope they will chime in. Barring that, you'll have to locate a gunsmith and pay him to do the work.

Mine is definitely not a carbine but I think it was available as a carbine. Considering the bore measurement I got at the muzzle I'm pretty sure it is the 6.5 caliber. I really don't plan to fire it although it is tempting so maybe it doesn't matter. If I change my mind I'll visit a gunsmith.

 

[mouser868]

You could do a chamber cast on it

 

[Cyrano]

If you do decide you want to shoot it, Bill, The Old Western Scrounger and Sarco Inc. are probably your best chances to find the en bloc clips you'll need. Who knows? You might be lucky and have one in .303 British. That's readily available without spending a fortune. (I looked up the 6.5mm and almost puked when I discovered that while it is still available, it's $75 for a box of 20 rounds! I mean, that's getting up into the cost of .50 BMG per round, for heaven's sake!)

 

[rando]

Mine is definitely not a carbine but apparently it was available



Mine is definitely not a carbine but I think it was available as a carbine. Considering the bore measurement I got at the muzzle I'm pretty sure it is the 6.5 caliber. I really don't plan to fire it although it is tempting so maybe it doesn't matter. If I change my mind I'll visit a gunsmith.

Many military rifles like the Mauser and Steyr rifles were made in full length and carbine. I even have Carcano rifles in carbine and full length. Even though many old rifles are over 100 years old they are still safe to shoot with the proper ammo. Like I said Ii would try the bullet test at the end of the barrel. If you are not going to shoot it then I would not do a cast or use a gunsmith. Not really worth the money if you dont plan on shooting it. Also ammo is really high if you can find it. Most of these hard to find cartridges can be replicated by a reloader using similar brass and reforming it and so forth. Also some use blackpowder and not modern day powder. I am sure if you take the stock off you will find the caliber stamped somewhere. I have barrels from old military rifles so worn on the outside that it is barely visible even using a magnifying glass.