Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by BattleRifleG3, Sep 17, 2002.

  1. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    Have any of you seen the shotguns that attach under the barrel of a AR-15 like a grenade launcher? When I first saw one, I figured it would be neat to have, but it wouldn't be civilian legal as shown, as the shotgun barrel would be too short. Sure you could register it as a sawed off for a price of $200 and the 4th Amendment, but if anyone here knows me, you know that I'm not afraid of long barrels and heavy weight. So give the shotgun an 18" barrel and you'd be legal. But the shotgun barrel would stick out, especially if you used the AR-15 carbine. So I'd want a longer barrel, and if the shotgun is the legally requisite 26" and starts in front of the magazine, then the rifle barrel would probably have to be at least 24". Then I got to thinking that would be a pretty heavy attachment and a lot of stress on an AR-15, which many of us believe is underpowered, so I figured why not use a FAL instead? You can get decently long standard barrels which are threaded and either install a compensator or a barrel extender and weld or pin it.
    I'm sure this would weigh in pretty high, but you'd get the firepower of a full powered rifle AND the versatility and power of a pump shotgun.
    Any suggestions or any of you think I'm on crack?
  2. MarkII 22

    MarkII 22 Guest

    I'v thout about something like that but I would just as rather have a FAL and a short shot gun. That would be realy cool tho.

  3. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    The Morita rifle from Starship Troopers is a very similar concept, except that they are based on a bullpupped Mini-14.
  4. Big Dog

    Big Dog Retired IT Dinosaur Wrangler Forum Contributor

    In the movie "Predator", Sonny Lantham ("Billy" the Indian) carries an M16 with a shotgun attached under the barrel. The shotgun barrel looks to be legal length, just minus it's buttstock. It's a fairly long and cumbersome contraption, but seems to physically work.

    I always figured a semi-auto shotgun with a carbine under the barrel might be more practical.

    Either way, sighting for both weapons would need some thought.
  5. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    I would think you'd site in the rifle and just point and shoot the shotgun. Maybe use the rifle's sites, but not too precisely. Mechanically orienting it would be hard enough.
  6. Calvin

    Calvin G&G Evangelist

    As far as the overall length of the shotgun, without buttstock, it has to have a barrel that is at least 16" in length. The safest way to measure a barrel is to empty the chamber, close the bolt/action, and measure from the tip of the barrel to the bolt/breech face. Some measure the length of the barrel only, but ATF has measured them in the way I described, too. There can be enough distance in measurement between the two to cause a serious problem-as much as 1/2", which can make or break legality.
    A short-barreled shotgun is considered an AOW (Any Other Weapon), and only requires a $5 transfer tax. JFYI.
  7. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    Actually, the length is 18" for shotguns, 16" for rifles. And I think short barreled shotguns require the full $200 transfer tax if registered as SBSs, which they would have to be unless it was never a normal shotgun.
  8. I might be mistaken but I thought 16 1/2 for shotgun barrel length.
  9. Calvin

    Calvin G&G Evangelist

    If it has a pistol grip, from the factory, and has a short barrel, it only requires a $5 tax stamp. The pistol grip has to stay on it-you cannot change stocks.
    And, the length is 16".
  10. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    Can you find a source for 16"? I think I can find one for 18". Just want to get the right numbers as we all do.
  11. oneastrix

    oneastrix G&G Newbie

    18" shotgun, 16" rifle
  12. G3 I stand corrected my Moss. 500 has a 18" barrel. And to add to 1* overall length no less than 26".
  13. oneastrix

    oneastrix G&G Newbie

    Sounds like a winner to me Alan...
  14. Mandy

    Mandy FREE CITIZEN Forum Contributor

    :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult:

    Why not use a HK91 and a Moss 590?
    You'll have 21 7.62x51 + 9 2 3/4" Slugs ready to rumble.

    :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult:
  15. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    Well whadaya know, I have them both. The weight on my body of carrying them both wouldn't be a big deal, but all the weight on one sling would be. I've always thought it would be great to have a harness on one's back that would act like a gun rack where one could carry two or even three long arms and be able to grab either one or switch quickly. I could see a shotgun and rifle on the back and subgun on chest.
    Of course I still think there are advantages to having rifle and shotgun pointed together at all times. But it would probably end up a thousand dollar project, so it's on the "wait till I have a career" list.
  16. BenP

    BenP Guest

    Aw shucks, put an M-14 in one hand, and one of those mag fed semi auto shotguns in the other. I'm big enough to handle both at once (6'6", 265 lbs).

    We used to do mock firefights using a mini-14, a thompson look alike 45 semi auto, and a 12 ga pump (and a couple of SA 45s just in case). If it were all about bullets (no frag or HE or Incendiary arsenal), a couple guys could do commando with that set up quite well. ****ed effective defensively, but oh so sweet for multi objective offense as well.

    I knew a guy from Nam that was SF and he said they'd drop him close to the trail, and he'd be packing these cherry bomb type grenades (little anti personnel devices about 1 1/2 inches in diameter). He said he'd run like hell on ambush through enemy camps, pitching these little gems left and right fast as he could yank em off the bandoliers, sometimes two or three at a toss. They'd go off about 5 seconds after he tossed em, and it would be wierd seeing the frozen shadows on the jungle in front of him when the flash went off at night like a strobe light. He said he only got shot at twice doing this, and he's the kind of squirrel that I just couldn't tell if I could believe him or not. He sure had a good game face, and he had pics from being in country with the right SOG small arms for the part, but I still had a tough time believing his tales.
  17. PAPA G

    PAPA G G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    one of those harness slings like what they used in the winter olympic biatholon might work for one weapon.of course to carry several, how about one of them wheeled golf bags!!! with pockets for extra ammo!!!:p
  18. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    Here's a rough sketch of what it would look like.

    Attached Files:

  19. Mandy

    Mandy FREE CITIZEN Forum Contributor

    :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult:

    BRG3, that's exactly what I meant when I sugested the setup with the G3.

    :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult:
  20. johno

    johno Guest

    why not just use an M203, and add it on to an AR-10? they make buckshot rounds for it. nothing like 40mm buckshot to ruin somones day.