Texas Man Convicted of Selling Pistol to Illegal Alien with Valid Driver's License

Discussion in 'Political/Religious Topics' started by Cyrano, Sep 3, 2010.

  1. Cyrano

    Cyrano Resident Curmudgeon Forum Contributor

    33,598
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    New York
  2. ChaZam

    ChaZam G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    Not a very nice picture of the feds is it?
     

  3. grizcty

    grizcty God, Guns, Glory Forum Contributor

    What a crock!

    Then again, it is the Feds.
    They have also REMOVED the word, ILLEGAL.
    Out of Illegal Allian.

    As It is NOT politically correct!
     
  4. [QOUTE]In a trial before Federal Judge Sam Sparks, government lawyers conceded Texas resident Paul Copeland did not know his buyer was an illegal alien, but the jury they should convict him anyway because he “had reasonable cause to believe” he was selling to an illegal alien because the two men and a boy who were present at his table at the time of the sale: 1) were Hispanic, 2) spoke Spanish, and 3) wore cowboy clothing. And the jury did as asked.[/QOUTE]This is crazy. Had Mr. Copeland denied the sale based on these three facts, then he would be dragged before the court for civil rights violations. The guy was stuck between a rock and a hard place. The government has its nose stuck so far into our business now that this kind of crapola can happen to any of us.
     
  5. SUBMOA

    SUBMOA G&G Evangelist

    B.s.

    What a bunch of B.S. . The Feds hypocracy knows no boundarys. If thy guy selling the gun had of asked for proof of U.S. citizenship the Federal Govt. probably would have charged him with racial profiling. Close the dang borders and do your dang job Feds !
     
  6. DWFan

    DWFan Handgunner Forum Contributor

    QUOTE:
    "In a trial before Federal Judge Sam Sparks, government lawyers conceded Texas resident Paul Copeland did not know his buyer was an illegal alien, but the jury they should convict him anyway because he “had reasonable cause to believe” he was selling to an illegal alien because the two men and a boy who were present at his table at the time of the sale: 1) were Hispanic, 2) spoke Spanish, and 3) wore cowboy clothing."

    Wait, aren't these the very same "indicators" the President of the United States used when he told us why the Arizona immigration law would lead to racial profiling? That the man and his son in his story about the ice cream parlor would get attention from law enforcement simply because of their appearance....and that was illegal?
    Like I said in another thread, look out. You are guilty even if you aren't simply because those in authority say you are. Truth and facts mean nothing.
     
  7. Brandhard

    Brandhard G&G Evangelist

    Where's the NRA when you need them?
     
  8. shop tom

    shop tom G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    1) were Hispanic, 2) spoke Spanish, and 3) wore cowboy clothing.

    Use these "profiling" indicators to question someone as to whether or not they are "legal", the Feds will nail you. Disregard these same characteristics when selling a gun, the Feds will nail you.

    Feds suck.

    tom
     
  9. CAV88

    CAV88 G&G Newbie

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    ahh how *** backwards our once great government has become...


    the camels back is being strained i wont be suprised when it finally snaps
     
  10. killsnapz

    killsnapz G&G Evangelist

    So what are we suppose to take away from this judges ruling on this case? Anyon who is selling firearms now has the right to use racial profiling when they conduct private sales of firearms? While were at it lets just refuse to sell guns to any black man because we all should know all black people are only going to use them to commit crimes right? What the hell is happening to this country!! This judge needs to be dragged of the bench and hung from the nearest tree. He is a tratoir to his country and his ruling is not based on any actual piece of existing law. This type of behavoir is not goverment it is tyranny plain and simple.
     
  11. DWFan

    DWFan Handgunner Forum Contributor

    Quote:
    "So what are we suppose to take away from this judges ruling on this case? Anyone who is selling firearms now has the right to use racial profiling when they conduct private sales of firearms?"

    No, not that you have the right, but that it's mandatory that you do. The prosecutor admitted the man had met the letter of the law, but insisted that the defendant still be found guilty because he didn't use racial profiling based on the person's looks and speech. The judge agreed.
    Meanwhile the illegal alien is facing no charges whatsoever, not even any stemming from being here illegally.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2010
  12. killsnapz

    killsnapz G&G Evangelist

    OK I understand. So if I ever decide to sell my Garand that I purchased from a private individual a couple of years ago and the person interested in buying it has a Mexican flag hanging from his review mirror I am required to not sell it to him by law because I should know he is an illegal because he has a Mexican flag in his car. If I tell him this straight out and he sues me I only need to refer him to precident set by this judge that I can not sell it to him because he appears to be an illegal. It all makes perfect sense now!
     
  13. shop tom

    shop tom G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    ANOTHER case of an IDIOT JUDGE.

    We should start recruiting our judges from the ranks of the severely mentally handicapped. Then at least their rulings would make sense.

    tom
     
  14. Kyl63

    Kyl63 G&G Newbie


    Thanks for the laugh, Tom! What's sad is you are probably right...

    I can't believe this was even brought to trial. The illegal alien should be deported and put in prison. Now this country has turned into "Hey, let's go buy guns in the USA, get that person thrown in jail because we can get legal ID's, and then use this gun to rob people and be a merc for <insert drug cartel or gang here>".

    /facepalm
     
  15. shop tom

    shop tom G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor


    Apparently we have but they don't............

    tom
     
  16. killsnapz

    killsnapz G&G Evangelist

    Hey I'm all for giving mentally retarted people a job and letting them gain self respect. Just please do not give them the postion of judge like someone did in this case. Actually that is probally an insult to mentally challenged people comparing this judge to them. At least they have common sense!
     
  17. DWFan

    DWFan Handgunner Forum Contributor

    One thing to remember, this is Austin, Texas; the San Francisco of the Lone Star State. (Houston, would be Los Angeles). If you're an Illegal there it's **** hard for you to commit any crime at all. You essentially have diplomatic immunity.
     
  18. big shrek

    big shrek G&G Evangelist

    Bingo...solve the criminal problems by refusing to sell to suspected wetbacks & gang members.

    Of course, it's what he shoulda done in the first place...

    A Private Citizen can refuse to sell anything to anyone...for ANY reason.
     
  19. silaxo1

    silaxo1 G&G Newbie

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    Find The Truth

    It is difficult to believe this case went down the way I am reading it everywhere. I can't find anything in the Austin Newspaper archives. I believe somebody, should go to the Federal Court and get a copy of the transcript and read it. If this case actually went down as posted, then we really have a constitutional problem in this country, and particularly with the Federal Government. To hell with calling your congressman as somebody suggested. That's like me talking to this wall next to me. The gun people should get together and walk through the halls of the location where the local ATF offices are. Federal offices are usually in a very nice building like in my city where there are investment firms, high dollar attorneys and the like. You think those businesses are going to want a couple of hundred protesters walking up and down their hallways. The police will move you outside, but that will still upset the clientel of these high tone businesses. Don't stop. Keep on them. Run them out of their high rent offices. I am a former police officer and have worked with ATF, FBI, DEA, in fact I was on an FBI task force for three years with a fine desk in their fine high dollar high rise building in the nicest part of town. Before anybody does this though, they should make sure that all the laws of evidence were not followed as stated in the only article I can find. It is just difficult for me to believe this case was prosecuted as written in what I read. If the courts and the police (feds and locals) are going that far outside the constitution, it is pretty close time to not just riot, but revolt violently. They must follow the constitution, and I'm not talking simply inadvertently violating somebody's constitutional rights. That happens all the time. I've done it myself. The evidence obtained is then not admissable. If evidence was allowed in court in violation of the constitution, we have a real problem. Please, first verify what REALLY happened in this case. I believe, I hope, you will find that everything was done above board. I have worked with these Federal Agencies, and while their Washington D.C. policies stink, the individuals do everything they can to not violate rights or go outside the constitution. It was said that the gun sold was given to the person buying it. I don't believe that. The gun must be presented as evidence in court and there must be a documented chain of evidence. Now, the illegal may have been working with the Feds or locals and may have been given amnesty for his services. Not much you can do about that. Maybe the NRA can obtain a copy of the court transcripts and go through them for you to see exactly what happened. I agree with the person who said the NRA should be all over this one.

    Please, find out the facts. Don't go off half baked.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2010
  20. Sober

    Sober G&G Newbie

    I have a Real hard time believing this is even legitamate. First off, An Illegal Mexican NOT getting deported after buying a firearm and the Govt knows about it, I dont think so, its not like this guy had Diplomatic immunity.I mean come on a guy admits he is an illegal immigrant then admits to buying and giving the firearm to someone else, and there are no reprecautions? Second why would the Feds go to such lengths to prosecute and convict Vietnam Vet that sold a gun at a gun show. The person he sold it to had a Drivers liscence so how the heck is this poor guy even in the wrong? Granted I am pretty sure your supposed to phone it in to the FBI for a background check because of the Brady Act but Im not sure if that applies to gunshows as they may be Exempt but I have no idea, I know thats what they have to do at gunshops and Sporting good stores.Finally, I think that this case would have been picked up by the NRA instantly and that this would have had national coverage. I mean a Vietnam Vet being tried and covicted because of the Testimony of an Illegal Imigrant. Really?!