The home defense shotgun and me

Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by Twitch2120, Aug 18, 2010.

  1. Twitch2120

    Twitch2120 G&G Evangelist

    What qualities should i be looking for in a HD shotgun? my thought process was shorter barrel length, pistol grip and tac rail to mount flashlight/laser. since joining the railroad my fiancee is gonna be home a good bit without me there and i want to make sure she has the easiest and most effective HD weapon money can buy. what are your thoughts on the matter? what qualities make up your HD shotgun? what gauge? pistol grip? sights? what companies?

    thanks!
     
  2. BarryHalls

    BarryHalls G&G Evangelist

    What's your budget?

    Forget the pistol grip. They are more cool than practical. If you had to keep the gun in a suitcase or under a counter I'd say get one, but not for home defense. Besides, a woman will haven even more trouble controlling those heavy loads than you will.

    In any event, the qualities that you are looking for are, power, capacity, ease of handling, and reliability.

    the things that will give you this, in the same order, are gauge, magazine size, overall length, and brand/action.

    I recommend 2 and only 2 shotguns to anyone looking for home defense

    #1 Mossberg 500: $300
    [​IMG]

    Proven to be the most reliable pump by US military torture tests and one of the cheapest shotguns on the market. Up to 9 shots with the 20" barrel. I like the parkerized (dull) finish and a full stock.

    #2 Sagia Shotgun: $450
    Russian American Armory: Shotguns
    [​IMG]

    These shotguns are AK-47s oversized and redesigned to use shot shells. They are among the most reliable semi autos in the world. They come with detachable 10 round magazines, and up to 40 round magazines can be purchased, though they are too heavy and up to $500.


    Given that a woman may have to use this weapon, and not knowing her size and strength, I recommend 20 gauge. Still PLENTY of power, and much less recoil.
     

  3. Pope130

    Pope130 G&G Enthusiast

    581
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    This question depends mostly on what your fiancee is competent with. I assume she is not highly experienced (if she was, she'd already know what she wants).

    That said. A short barrel pump action is a good choice. I use a Mossberg 500 with an 18.5 inch tube and 5 round tube. I find it handles much better than the 20 inch/8 round model. The extra rounds would be nice, but the ease of use more than makes up for that. For defense against a home intruder I think five rounds is more than sufficient.

    I definitely would not use a pistol grip only configuration. They are very much more difficult to shoot well, and have more felt recoil. A full stock with a pistol grip can be a good choice.

    An accessory mount for a flashlight is a very good idea. Depending on what you want to spend, a flashlight/laser combination, or a unit that also has a strobe "dazzler" is an option. A basic flashlight and mount can be added for under $100. Make sure the flashlight will stand up to recoil shock.

    For which gun to choose: the Remington 870 and the Mossberg 500 are the benchmark for this application. The Mossberg has an aluminum receiver, thus lighter and handles quicker. The Remington is all steel, the greater weight absorbing more recoil. The Maverick 88 (economy version of the Mossberg) and the Remington have crossbolt safeties, which are better for a pistolgrip stock. The Mossberg 500 has a top mounted safety, which is better for a left hander.

    Which gauge depends largely on the shooter. 12 is the most common, lots of ammo, lots of parts. 20 is quite adequately powerful, and has less recoil, a good choice for new or weaker shooters. For some the 410 is a good choice. It's much less powerful than a 12 or 20, but can still be effective. Think of it as a powerful pistol round in an easy to aim package. Mossberg makes a very nice home defense package in 410.

    Briefly on tactics. Her purpose is defense. Not hunting down bad guys. Plan on taking a good defensive position and calling 911. Then stay there 'til the cops arrive. (And don't fire on the cops by mistake.)

    Final matter is training. She should take formal training if at all possible and practice, Practice, PRACTICE!

    Robert
     
  4. First off I think pistol grips on a HD shotgun is stupid. An HD shotgun should have an 18 to 18.5" barrel so don't buy a 20" barrel model because it's all about manuverability and handyness. I have used both and the 18.5" barrels are best suited for HD and to carry in your automobile as a back up and road gun.

    My first HD was a Maverick 88 security with 18.5" barrel. I sold it to a friend because my son gave me a Mossberg 590 police/ military with 20" barrel. It weigh's a ton holds 10 rounds, if you roll play working your way down a hall way the extra 2 inch's actually gets in the way. That's why my cop son gave it to me. The 18 inch model's you can hold down next to your side and walk without the muzzel touching the ground. If it's a model with 20'' barrel you'll likely drag the muzzel over something and especialy going up or down a staircase.

    I've hunted and own 2 Remington 870 pump's. I think Mossberg has the best HD shot gun though.
    You don't have to spend a lot of money for an HD shotgun because a Maverick 88 will do the jobfor less than $200.00

    If you want an HD shotgun that I think is the best you can buy for home and carry a Mossberg "500" model is the one to buy. It's has an elavator that carries the shell up to the chamber and it's perfectly lined up to the chamber to be pushed right in when you rack the shotgun.
    The "tang" safety keeps your hand gripped around the pistol grip. All you need to do is use your thumb to push it to fire.

    There's a Mossberg 500 model with butt stock and comes with a pistol grip you can put on and has parkerized or mutted black finish that sells cheaper than other 500 model's. This is the one to buy because of price and come's with the silly pistol grip if you have to have it.

    For a woman though a 20ga. model be best.

    Another thing if you've never shot a HD shotgun your in for a cool surprise. You'll love it !!!
    It's like haveing a fire breathing dragon in your hands that spews death everytime you pull the trigger.
    There a Hoot to Shoot...A.H
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2010
  5. Rex_Lee

    Rex_Lee G&G Regular

    +1 on the no pistol grip. I have a pistol grip shotgun, and I can't hit shite with it, and I am a GOOD shot with a shotgun. It just fundamentally changes the way you aim. I have been meaning to get a good butt-stock for it for a while. Now a combo pistol grip, with a butt stock is a different matter.
     
  6. BarryHalls

    BarryHalls G&G Evangelist

    Despite what other guys on here are saying, I boldly claim that 1.5 inches is worth adding to gain the 8 round magazine tube giving you 3 more shots.

    They seem bulkier, but they really aren't. They are slightly heavier.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2010
  7. 99z28monster

    99z28monster G&G Newbie Forum Contributor

    Remington 870 or mossberg 500 are my two choices. I have had the 500 and now currently have the 870. Keep it short and keep it simple. The less crap you add to the weapon the better. Keep in mind you don't want to be adding all sorts of features to the weapon to make it Tacti-cool. If you or your fiance ever have to pull the trigger on a perp it will look a lot better in your defense with a plain ole shotgun. Not a max ammo, laser sights, flashlights, grips and all sorts of stuff like that. It is a defense weapon not something off of mad max. I know it is BS but with the way society is now days however you need every advantage possible. Keep legal actions in mind as well when choosing a defense weapon.
     
  8. 99z28monster

    99z28monster G&G Newbie Forum Contributor

    I feel the same. More ammo in the tube is much better than a few in the tube and an ammo mount on the stock.
     
  9. BarryHalls

    BarryHalls G&G Evangelist


    Thank God, I live in a red county in a red state. If there is a man in my home while I'm gone, my wife can kill him with a M2, and all we have to prove is, he was standing inside the house when she pulled the trigger.
     
  10. I Boldly claim you don't need the "extra capasity" or weight for a HD defence shotgun. :smashfreakB:

    Your not going to be useing it on a Battlefield and a group attack of Zombies ain't gonna happen, to need all that ammo.

    Only one shot of 00 buckshot within it's range will get result's. You can always add an elastic cuff that slips over the butt stock to have additional shells on hand if you need them. :banghead:

    ...A.H :headbang:
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2010
  11. BarryHalls

    BarryHalls G&G Evangelist

    Indeed, but in my area alone there have been many break-ins in my adult life alone which consisted of 3 or more men assaulting a woman or beating a couple to death, so on so forth. Yeah, the first shot usually does the trick for all 5 guys (they run), but I'm not any chances I don't have to. I'll take my 3 extra shots and recommend them to anyone else.
     
  12. Aside from the differences in opinions here is mine. Having actually used a shotgun in a home invasion in my home you need to keep in mind that simple is better. In high stress situations you want something you can depend on. That is known by you to be reliable. A shotgun that you have practiced with enough to know where that shot is going when you make that choice to pull the trigger.

    Most of what you are asking about is building a tackti Kewl shotgun. If thats what you want then you should have that and a great HD shotgun as well. In other words 2 seperate shotguns. The more you have to deal with in high stress the more your not going to make it through it.

    So forget the pistol grips. Forget the laser sights. Forget the folding stock. Get a great 18.5 or 20 inch barrel. Get a reliable Mossy 500 or Remmi 870 or anything that you have taken out to the range of your choice and shot and shot and shot.
    Any shotgun you buy that works 100% of the time when you shoot it at the range is the one I would use for HD.

    I personally like the 870's a little better because they are so easy to take apart. You knock three pins out and its basicly taken apart. Im a big guy so that 20 inch barrel is not a concern at all. But owning a lot of shotguns I dont see a lot of difference between them for a HD situation.

    So what I am saying is what everyone else on here is saying. Get a good Mossberg or Remmington or whatever shotgun with at least a 20 or a 18.5 barrel. A mounted flash light comes in handy but make it easy to operate on and off.
    And no matter what you get for a shotgun USE IT. Practice is the only way you will be ready if in the one in a million chance you have to defend yourself with it.

    Stay away from the tacti-kewl for Home Defense.
     
  13. Twitch2120

    Twitch2120 G&G Evangelist

    i think i gave you guys the wrong impression. im not trying to make this thing tactikewl. i know i wanted a pump sighting reliability. the length i knew i wanted shorter. ive dry run through my house with my m44 and my remmy 700. 18 inch barrels much easier than 26. the pistol grip was simply making it even handier/shorter. the object would be to hip fire it. the light is simply this. i dont want to have to worry about turning on the lights. what if the switch is in the opposite corner of the room as the gun? having a light on the gun seems like a better option than none at all but i suppose i was wrong. she isnt new to shooting. she grew up around shotguns at her grandfathers. mostly 410 and maybe 20 ga. im going to borrow my dads 12 gauge and get some buck shot tomorrow and see how she handles it. if it works well then ill get a 12. if its harsh for her then ill look into a 20 ga. she has handled the recoil of my mosins and garand well enough. dont think a 12 ga is any worse than those 2. thanks for the ideas. keep em coming!

    price isnt important. ill trade $1000 if it means i can sleep easier knowing shes safe at night
     
  14. Windwalker

    Windwalker G&G Newbie

    As mentioned earlier, the Saiga 12 Or the Saiga 20 would be great.
     
  15. Sorry if I wasnt clear about a light Twitch. If you do put one on the shotgun make it easy to turn on and off. If it is off and you need it on you do not want to be fumbling for a switch when you should be concentrating on saving your life.
    A mounted light or a handheld flashlight is REQUIRED for HD.

    The one I use for HD is the second from the bottom in the pic.
    Remmington 870 pump 12 gauge with 20 inch barrel.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Twitch2120

    Twitch2120 G&G Evangelist

    im hesitant about a semi auto for HD. just the reliability issue. its hard to screw up a pump
     
  17. Mine HD shotgun is a Mossberg 500 with a pressure switch flashlight mounted to a picatinny rail that I mounted to the magazine tube. A laser isn't needed, but a good light to differentiate between friend and foe is! And get the largest gauge she is comfortable with. For me, I use a 12 gauge, for my wife, 20 gauge. And use the largest plain jane buckshot you can get. 00 for 12, #3 for 20 if you can find it. If not, #4 will suffice for 20 gauge.
     
  18. BarryHalls

    BarryHalls G&G Evangelist


    Saiga is practically unfailing. In the conditions of a home, or most jungles, a Saiga 12 or 20 will never let you down.

    Pumps certainly get the job done, but that semi auto makes for much faster follow up shots, and you can get a 10-30rd magazine AND an 18 inch barrel.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2010
  19. 99z28monster

    99z28monster G&G Newbie Forum Contributor

    Looks like Capt'n Mil Coll summed it up pretty well. We even use the same HD gun.
     
  20. Well,

    I have a shorter barrelled twelve gauge Remington 870 with full stock loaded with alternating slug and double ought buckshot.

    I do not like pistol grips as I feel it puts too much recoil force on the wrist, is harder to point as the "balance" of the gun is lost to me, plus you lose the visual aiming ability inherent in the classic shouldering of the gun.












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