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To Scope or not to Scope

Discussion in '1903' started by BattleRifleG3, Mar 20, 2002.

  1. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 Retired Moderator

    I'm going to pick up a Springfield Garand in the next week, and wonder if I should look into a scope mount for it. What's the variety? And are there any that aren't grossly anachronistic? I'm a little hesitant to get one because our guys in WWII usually didn't have them, but I want to make the most of my accuracy as well.

    Any suggestions?
     
  2. KidKwiK

    KidKwiK G&G Newbie

    I think you should leave that rifle alone. It shoots great with out a scope and its a classic WWII rifle which should be shot the way it was intended. I'm sure by all the posts I see from you (BG3) that you have may rifles. Why not put a scope on one of those newer rifles with less history behind it. But by all means shoot that garand its a blast. :)
     

  3. DaveTinNY

    DaveTinNY G&G Newbie

    NO scope if you ask me. I think the rifle should be left as it was originally designed... intended to be used by the GIs with iron sights.
    If you want a scoped M1, go for the M1C or M1D.
    My two clips -

    Dave T
     
  4. Dvmmatt

    Dvmmatt G&G Newbie

    Why mess up a great rifle by putting a scope on it?
     
  5. willys

    willys G&G Newbie

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    TEXAS
    If you want to scope it, why not go with an original scope.
    I have an M84 telescope i want to mount on my next M1.
     
  6. lefty o

    lefty o G&G Evangelist

    9,224
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    mn
    i say why not! as long as your not butchering an all original, or rare m-1. ive been toying with the idea myself. think ill get a reciever and build a gun from it, but being left handed im pretty much stuck going with a scout type of setup.
     
  7. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 Retired Moderator

    A lot of what you've all said is what I've been thinking about. Believe it or not, though, my new M1 will probably be the most accurate gun thus far. Although I still have yet to try anything better than mil-surp in my G3. I'll keep my eyes open for well priced good quality Garand scope mounts, but will certainly do plenty of open site shooting.
    Does anyone know how the Garand scope mounts attach? That would be a big consideration. I would want one that basically goes on top, not one that involves reconfiguring stuff.
    Heck, after shelling out $525, I'm not gonna be jumping into more expenses.
     
  8. barnetmill

    barnetmill G&G Newbie

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    M1's are not that difficult to scope. I had one set up with a Burris scout scope at the Ole Frontier Gunshop, Contonment, FL 850-477-8074. Ask for Alan. This is near Pensacola and Mobile, AL.
    Three blind holes were drilled over the chamber area of a Douglas supplied target barrel in 30-06 to secure a base. This job requires a highly proficient machinist.

    Mechanically the scope works. Clips load and eject with no problems. However, the scope gets very hot. Burris said failure of the scope could occur if some of the non-metal parts got too hot. I was allowed to nonofficially participate in a highpower match with this setup. So far the scope is working well. The major disadvantage is that the stock is not high enough for the scope and the excellent iron sights that come with the M1 are hard to beat. It your eyes are normal you will find that iron sights under practical shooting conditions are quite good. It is true that from a sand bag the scope is better assuming that your M1 is hgihly accurate. People that only shoot from a sandbag will never learn to shoot from usable positions.

    Best of luck

    Carl M.:)
     
  9. willys

    willys G&G Newbie

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    Mounting the proper scope for an M1 is easy. You can get a block the slides over the barrel and secures with allen screws. You would have to trim some off you rear hand guard . The block is about $60. The only problem is that the scope will cost between $400-$600, for a good one
     
  10. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 Retired Moderator

    From the looks of it, I think I'll leave it in its present condition. I'll practice with iron sites till I get as good with them as people say they can be.
     
  11. barnetmill

    barnetmill G&G Newbie

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    Willys,
    You stated: "Mounting the proper scope for an M1 is easy. You can get a block that slides over the barrel and secures with allen screws. "
    Have you actually done this. On my M1 the op rod would not clear a block that is just slipped on. I believed the military solved this by machining the chamber to a smaller diameter and then slipped a ring over the barrel to which a redfield scope was mounted off to the side to allow clip functioning.
    It is true that "You would have to trim some off you rear hand guard". Who makes the block that you mentioned? "The block is about $60."
    No comment on my part on: "The only problem is that the scope will cost between $400-$600, for a good one"
     
  12. S&K has a scope mount that attaches to the rear sight
    assembly, no drilling/tapping.
    Fulton has them on sale this month. there is one small
    problem- the scope will have to be turned 90 deg. so
    clip ejection doesn't hit the windage knob at least on
    most scopes.I e-mailed two scope manufactures, they
    say there is no problem for the scope just that you have to
    get your head right about the adustments being reversed.
     
  13. Armorer

    Armorer Guest

    I want to see one of these "barrel blocks for $60". Show me the website :)

    SA is reproducing the M1 scope mount. It was to be out by now. (yeah right SA). It mounts along side the bolt on the outside left side. You can use the stock sites, just have to drill holes in your reciever :-(

    The B-Square one that Fulton and everyone else sells takes away the use of the stock sight. (very very bad).

    The drilling into the top of your chamber monut is for those that don't like thier faces! I have seen 06 chambers after they have been tapped and split. NO THANK YOU!

    I bought a Holo sight for my M1. Someday when SA comes out with the proper mount. I'll install it, right above the rear battle sight. Till then no way.
     
  14. barnetmill

    barnetmill G&G Newbie

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    Armorer,

    Can you provide us with the details of your statement:
    "I have seen 06 chambers after they have been tapped and split."

    I am as are many others most interested in cases of barrel failure. Can you provide full details.


    Thanks,
    Carl M.
     
  15. Armorer

    Armorer Guest

    One was a A3O3, one was a 700BDL Remmington.

    The A303 had been sporterized. The chamber cracked bewteen the mounting holes and blow the scope a foot in the air. The bolt locking lugs held, or that guy would have eaten it.

    The other was a 700, may have been a 742 BDL. It was tapped on the left side of the chamber. Creaked from the screw holes to where the barrel screwed into the reciever. I believe this was from a double feed.
    Where the back of the first round is torn off and ejected and the next round is fed into the case of the first round.

    What some folks don't realize is that when a round is detenated in a chamber, the outward pressure is 360 degrees. Any weak point, and the gases WILL take the fastest route outward.

    I had a handgun explode in my face 30 years ago. I still have little black freckles to remind me.
     
  16. barnetmill

    barnetmill G&G Newbie

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    Armorer,


    One was a A3O3, one was a 700BDL Remmington.

    The A303 had been sporterized. The chamber cracked bewteen the mounting holes and blow the scope a foot in the air. The bolt locking lugs held, or that guy would have eaten it.

    The other was a 700, may have been a 742 BDL. It was tapped on the left side of the chamber. Creaked from the screw holes to where the barrel screwed into the reciever. I believe this was from a double feed.
    Where the back of the first round is torn off and ejected and the next round is fed into the case of the first round.

    What some folks don't realize is that when a round is detenated in a chamber, the outward pressure is 360 degrees. Any weak point, and the gases WILL take the fastest route outward.

    I had a handgun explode in my face 30 years ago. I still have little black freckles to remind me.
     
  17. barnetmill

    barnetmill G&G Newbie

    9
    0
    Armorer


    One was a A3O3, one was a 700BDL Remmington.

    The A303 had been sporterized. The chamber cracked bewteen the mounting holes and blow the scope a foot in the air. The bolt locking lugs held, or that guy would have eaten it.

    The other was a 700, may have been a 742 BDL. It was tapped on the left side of the chamber. Creaked from the screw holes to where the barrel screwed into the reciever. I believe this was from a double feed.
    Where the back of the first round is torn off and ejected and the next round is fed into the case of the first round.

    What some folks don't realize is that when a round is detenated in a chamber, the outward pressure is 360 degrees. Any weak point, and the gases WILL take the fastest route outward.

    I had a handgun explode in my face 30 years ago. I still have little black freckles to remind me.
     
  18. barnetmill

    barnetmill G&G Newbie

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    Armorer,
    Please excuse the two false replies. I think I have figured out the glitch.
    You certainly do cite some cases of blowups. Usually when a chamber fails it destroys the action ring. On most bolt guns the bolt handle or locking lug will retain the bolt if the action has not completely split.
    On any modern remington rifle there normally is no reason to drill and tap since they come that way from the factory unless you are doing a scout scope installation. I would need more details to understand exactly what had been done to that rifle.
    The springfield is full of questions. Quality of the barrel and what was done to it and how well it was fitted. In my M1 the 3 screw holes are very shallow and they are spaced out over the length of the 4" long base. My major fear was that the base would detach. Most "gunsmiths" can not drill-tap shallow blind holes and I assume that douglas uses properly heat treated steel in their barrels. There is minimal danger from this set up if it is done right. I believe, please correct if I am wrong, that the military did remove significant metal from M1 chambers when they chamber mounted scopes on the sniper versions of this rifle. This would seem to weaken a barrel more than three shallow holes.
    In my limited experience I have had only one incident-it was a case separation in a p-17. My glasses protected my eyes. The handloaded ammo had been improperly stored and had weakened the cases over years of storage. My fault on that one.

    best wishes
    Carl M.
     
  19. Armorer

    Armorer Guest

    You can go back and delete those posts. Click on edit, then on the top it will have the delete line.

    I have to see one of those chamber mounts. I bet it is a different barrel than my NM.

    You dudes do what you feel is safe. Me I'm waiting for the SA mount.
     
  20. Armorer, back in the early 70's I saw the results of a catastrophic failure. A guy came into the gun store wearing several boxes of bandaids and had cotton stuck in his left ear. He had purchased some reloading gear for use reloading for his 30.06 cal 1903 Springfield and his pistol. He got drunk then concocted a load for his Springfield that consisted of a 180gr bullet and a case full (read this as compressed!) of PISTOL powder. It was after dark when he finished so he took the rifle out the back door and test fired it. The last thing he remembered before passing out was how nice the backyard looked when lit by the fast burning powder. He awoke to find the barrel and forend in his left hand and the pistol grip and buttstock in his right hand. Never did find all of the pieces in between! Of course, most of us would never intentionally shoot such an overload in our guns but must remember that tapping or drilling into the receiver may weaken it enough to obtain the same results as this gentleman did but with a "normal" loading.