Troops voting Obama in order to come home

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by lorcin25, May 28, 2008.

What will happen if we leave Iraq?

Poll closed May 30, 2008.
  1. Nothing. They will fight as always and leave us out.

    12 vote(s)
    21.4%
  2. Problems in the M.E. will increase until we have to go again.

    11 vote(s)
    19.6%
  3. The terrorists will bring the fight to our front door...again.

    25 vote(s)
    44.6%
  4. Other.....(explain)

    8 vote(s)
    14.3%
  1. lorcin25

    lorcin25 G&G Newbie

    I hear many of our troops are voting for Obama so they can come home soon. Kind of makes me leery of what would happen. What do you guys think would happen?
     
  2. CrazyIvan

    CrazyIvan G&G Enthusiast

    Goes to show they either

    1. Didn't know what they were signing up for.

    or

    2. Don't believe they are helping much over there.

    or both.

    I don't want Obama as president because of his anti-rights position. But...

    Either way, I think Iraq is a loss. Bring them home and cancel funding.

    Don't tell me we are making progress... A guy that was walking down a street in 2004 is walking down the same street today, with much of the same threat of firefight and death. What progress does this show? Answer: None!

    We have no front line, and our troops are not moving anywhere. Our troops are stationed in one place, serving basically as a police force. This is not the purpose of our military.
     

  3. lorcin25

    lorcin25 G&G Newbie

    Part of that is due to the fact that the enemy is not clearly defined. They look like regular citizens. The enemy is among them.

    My friend did a house raid just the other day and uncovered weapons in the same area that they searched and found some a week or so before. These people are sneaky.

    But I understand your point.:09:
     
  4. CrazyIvan

    CrazyIvan G&G Enthusiast

    Exactly...

    Finding criminals hiding amongst the public is for a police force, not for a military.
     
  5. oldjarhead

    oldjarhead G&G Evangelist

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    I was talking with a recent Iraq returnee yesterday. It's not the that the troops are frustrated about their being in Iraq...it's the frustration of the political limitations put on them by congress and the government administration. They are being severly limited in what they can do and how they do it by the, get this, legalities of war based on the Geneva Convention.
    If the politicians would get the hell out of the way, the military could clean up this mess. Our government is doing to them exactly what they did to us in Vietnam.
    The media is presenting biased reporting and presenting a handful of dissenters as a majority.
     

  6. You have a very valid point. However, there is not one thing about war that is not political. The military is suppose to fight for the will of the people of our country. The will of our people are not into this war, and lots of them want it to end. I am one of those people, I want our troops to come home and be with their families.

    If we didn't restrict the Military in such political ways, and allowed them to just kill civilians we could have ended this war a long time ago, and wouldn't have needed to put that many troops on land. Our Navy could wipe out all the "insurgents" bases of operations from hundreds of miles away. However, we can't just do that, we are all after all human right?

    What I don't get is how we patronize war, and symbolize it with freedoms, hollywood movies, and make it all too glorious. In my mind war never changes from the days of the Persian Empire being devastated by Alexander the Great, to the Fall of the Roman Empire by the Germanic Tribes, to the French Indian War, all the way up to present day. War never changes and it kills lots of humans and creates political disarray. It never really in the end has caused peace. I guess there was a time when the Roman empire had over a century of peace, but that is after they conquered and slaughtered a lot of people.

    I guess what I am trying got say is it must just be in our nature to kill each other over ideas. I don't think we are doing that much good over there. You must realize that the older men and women over there won't change, they won't be open to new ideas. They don't want our help. The young, the open minded and more liberal people will want the change. Older people fear change and are stuck in their ways. If we want to make a change we will need to be present for a whole generation, and even then it may not make a difference. They have been at war over there for thousands of years.
     
  7. Cyrano

    Cyrano Resident Curmudgeon Forum Contributor

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    Quite aside from the government making the same mistakes they did in Vietnam ("You can shoot here, but not there; you can use this weapon but not that one," etc.), we have a moral obligation to the Iraqi people to at least put their country back in working order before we go home. We did some serious breakage there, we should fix what we broke. If we pull out now, saying "Let the hadjis go to hell their own way," here's my take on what will happen.

    The artificial "nation" that is Iraq will split in three. The Sunnis will form a client state of Saudi Arabia and may eventually be absorbed by them. The Shi'ites will become a client state of Iran, ditto. The Kurds will form a new nation, Kurdistan, aggressively defend their borders (not least because they have a lot of the oil), and will attempt to annex a chunk of Turkey on the northern Iraqi border that is overwhelmingly Kurdish. This is where we really wind up on a picket fence with a pole up our butts.

    The Turks are longtime American allies. We've never fought them, and they have fought at our side (in Korea, where the valor of the Turkish Brigade once saved the Eighth Army, at a horrendous price in dead and wounded Turks). We've shed blood together. That counts for more than a little. They helped us (reluctantly) contain Saddam up until Curious George invaded Iraq in 2003. They have every reason to expect us to side with them in the event of a territorial dispute with Kurdistan.

    The Kurds are the only ethnic group in Iraq that has gotten its act together and set about nation-building as opposed to playing religous reindeer games. The thing is, the nation they are building isn't Iraq; it's Kurdistan. They (quite sensibly in my opinion, given the Sunnis' and the Shi'ites' track record of screwing them over) want to secede from Iraq and become their own nation. It could be argued that Israel is the precedent that's on point here. I mean, how many hundred thousand Kurds did Saddam's government kill off using everything from ecological change to poison gas? And there is the matter of the revolt in 1991 fomented on the promise of Bush Senior that the US would come to their aid - which on Bush Senior's orders, we did not, with the result Saddam engaged in what amounts to genocide against them. They would argue that America owes them for that, and that therefore, coupled with the fact their region is a going concern capable of making it on its own, they are entitled to our support against Turkey.

    Meanwhile the village idiot who caused all the trouble, George W. Bush, will be settin' pretty on the front porch of his Crawford ranch, his lips moving as he reads what the ghostwriter is producing for his memoirs, and chuckling over the inability of the schmuck in the Oval Office to do a better job of settling the Iraq problem than he managed.

    That's what I see happening. I can see the Turks and the Kurds going to war, with the Iranians and the Sunni provinces waiting to pounce on Kurdistan however it turns out. Unless whoever is in the White House is smart enough to realize we have no moral authority there and stay out of it, a regional war as large as World War I could very easily break out. I don't think it would go nuclear, but I can't see it ending well.
     
  8. Wingwiper

    Wingwiper Suspended

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    Semper Fi Old jarhead

    Something needs to be understood before the debate gets too heated.

    We are NOT occupying Iraq, we are now under the guidence of the Iraq Government and they are doing much of their own fighting. We have to ask before we go into a town and we have to ask before we can take out a target because we are on Iraqi Soil. There is NO North Iraq and South Iraq and the North against the South, it is insurgents against the Iraqi people and the people are under Iraqi Rule. We are NOT occupying and therefore are not in CHARGE. We train and we provide intel and we provide help and assistance where the Iraq military or police are ineffecient.

    Before we blow up Iraqi structures etc we need to get permission, this is totally understandable, a pain in the a-s, but understandable.
     
  9. and i hear that sex and the city will be an entertaining and enjoyable movie:werd:

    (honestly, BS is easy to spot)
     
  10. Wingwiper

    Wingwiper Suspended

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    What BS are you refering to?????
     
  11. none specifically

    its just that i hear alot of stuff to

    now do the troops want to vote for obama to get themselves out of iraq....maybe, but honestly i dont see any evidence

    what i have seen is service men and women going back when they dont have to alot of the time (maybe because of their sense of duty or whatever)

    the US armed forces is made up of a diverse and excellent pool of americas finest, so naturally their opinions will reflect them

    all im saying is i dont think what lorcin25 had heard is very reputable, all im saying
     
  12. samuel

    samuel G&G Newbie

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    If we leave the Arabs will fight the Persians as they have for thousands of years and the oil will stop flowing and this country will collapse. sam.
     
  13. CrazyIvan

    CrazyIvan G&G Enthusiast


    Let it collapse. No better way to get those oil gorrillas off our backs. It would certainly encourage the liberals to allow homeland drilling.
     
  14. We are not occupying Iraq...and I did NOT have sex with that woman.:09:

    Your claim that we're simply there as friends at the invitation of the Iraqi government is somewhere between sad and funny. Call it what you will. But if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

    Getting back to the subject: I'm kind of skeptical the average soldier in Iraq would think that way. I'd say they're more likely to do so after they've been back home a while or even gotten out, and have had a chance to decompress a little and gain some perspective.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2008
  15. Wingwiper

    Wingwiper Suspended

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    Well said, Well written and I 100% agree.

    There are some who want out, but over all the Military is doing a Super Job, not being credited for the job they are doing and they have to listen to the COUCH POLITICAINS over here. Their Spirit, as good as you can expect and the YOUNGER GENERATION has proven, yet again, that when called upon, they can put down their Ipods and Playstations and do a right fine job, as good as any generation before them.

    I serve with many and their Spirits are excellent.
     
  16. dhermesc

    dhermesc G&G Evangelist



    Well put.
     
  17. CalifgirlinOk

    CalifgirlinOk G&G Evangelist

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    I voted on the poll and I'v got nothing to say about it.I sure hope this thread doesn't get turned into a heated debate...!!!!!
     
  18. Wingwiper

    Wingwiper Suspended

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    Troy

    I can not help you with your ignorance or your flattering way of trying to reword what is fact.

    NO! we are not occupying, maybe in a loose sense of the word we are as YOU are occupying space. But in the NEGATIVE Terms that so many are trying to IMPLY, NO! we are not. DID we occupy the BEaches of Normandy as we LIBERATED France? You bet we did and our dead Occupy, to this day some land in France, in every sense of the word. So is OCCUPY an evil word? NOT AT ALL, so if you feel better troy, YES! Our troops are occupying Iraq under the eye of the Iraqi Government and need Iraqi permission prior to attacks. They are allowed to defend if fired upon.

    Troy, also point out where I said Friends and invitations? No matter how I feel, those words do not exist in my post, yet you so adamantly say I CLAIM... Go back to your toy box and no more PMs I am not interested in your rantings.

    No heated debate... I am gone and troy is on ignore
     
  19. deadman03

    deadman03 G&G Addict

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    i dont realy know a whole lot of what is going on in iraq. i dont trust the news stations to unbiasly tell me what is going on over there. i think that the media is strongly against the war and is trying to convince the population that the war is horrible. therefore i am inclined to think that the war is not going as bad as they want it to sound.

    i dont think there is any reason to think that the terrorist will not attack the US again.
     
  20. Wingwiper

    Wingwiper Suspended

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    Rebuilding Iraq - DefendAmerica News