close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

Vz-24 vs. 98k Mauser

Discussion in 'Mausers' started by PrivateWadley, Jul 12, 2009.

  1. PrivateWadley

    PrivateWadley G&G Newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2009
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gentlemen: This may be the place to get my answer. I purchased a Czech Vz24 recently. While doing research, I read where this rifle was in use before the Germans took over Czechoslovakia. They liked it so well, they modeled their K98 Mauser after it. Later after I had revealed that tidbit of information to everyone who would hold still, I read elsewhere that just the opposite may be true. Does anyone know the real truth of the matter?
    *


     
    #1
  2. cheapblaster

    cheapblaster G&G Evangelist

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Messages:
    2,028
    Likes Received:
    106
    According to Wikipedia the Vz 24 began production in 1924 and ran through 1942. It was not produced in Germany. The K98 was adopted in and production began in 1935 and ran until 1945. So the Vz 24 came first, though I could not find information about by who and where either design came from.
     
    #2
  3. Dakoma

    Dakoma G&G Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,473
    Likes Received:
    10
    They were all stealing ideas,google smokeless powder and see who invented it and what caliber weapon it was first desighned for!
     
    #3
  4. cheapblaster

    cheapblaster G&G Evangelist

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Messages:
    2,028
    Likes Received:
    106
    A little further digging in Wikipedia yielded this:

    G98 derivatives

    A great number of military rifles derived from the M98 design. Some of these were German-made by various contractors apart from Mauser, and include the M1899 Serbian in 7x57 mm, M1902 Mexican in 7x57 mm, M1903 Turkish in 7.65x53 mm, M1904 Portuguese 'Mauser-Vergueiro' 6.5x58mm, M1909 Argentinian in 7.65x53 mm, Japanese Arisaka Type 38 and Type 99 in 6.5x50mm and 7.7x58mm, and numerous others.
    Following the collapse of the German Empire in the WW1, many countries that were using Mauser models chose to develop, assemble or modify their own G98-action rifle designs; The most prolific were the Czechoslovakian M1922 CZ 98 and M1924 CZ vz.24 and the Belgian Fabrique Nationale M1924 and M1930, all in 7.92x57 mm.
    The Belgians and Czechs produced and exported widely their 'Mausers' in various calibers throughout the 20s and 30s, before their production facilities were absorbed by the conquering Nazi Germany and used to produce parts or whole rifles for the German army. Strictly speaking these are not Mauser rifles, as they were not engineered or produced by the Germans. It is a common misconception that the Czech and Belgian 'Mausers' are copies of the K98k due to their superficial similarity in length, in reality these were developed at least 10 years earlier and as they were peace-time products, they are renowned for their high standards of engineering and manufacture.



    I'm not sure about the "strictly speaking these are not mausers" part, I assume the production was licensed by Mauser. I also note that the Treaty of Versailles, ending WW! specifically prohibited weapon production in Germany. By 1932 Germany announced that it was not going to adhere to that, in 1935 and Hitler's rise, the treaty was formally renounced by Germany. Curiously, the same year that K98 production began in Germany.


    I'll throw out this idea - that Mauser, unable to operate in Germany, had a hand in what went on in the Czech production. The design was certainly adapted quickly in Germany. This is speculation on my part.



    But that is more pondering over the origin of the design, not over the fact that the Vz24 pre-dates the K98.
     
    #4
  5. texnmidwest

    texnmidwest Sir Loin of Beef Forum Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2007
    Messages:
    16,846
    Likes Received:
    1,472
    Pretty interesting info!

    The only mauser I own is a Vz24. Bought it off the resale rack with a stock that had be sanded almost to nothing. Bought a new stock and restored her former glory!
     
    #5
  6. SightNSqueeze

    SightNSqueeze G&G Newbie

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    5,998
    Likes Received:
    26
    The VZ-24 was perhaps ahead of its time due to the shortened stock and barrel. Don't forget too, that Czechoslovakian "98" receivers are second-to-none in strength and fitting of parts; no wonder why so many fine hunting rifles were made from BRNO receivers and bolts. Meanwhile, the 1935 modifications to the Mauser Model-98 which resulted in the Kar98-series of shortened service rifles was mandated by the needs of mechanized warfare where troops deployed in armored vehicles, light vehicles, tanks, and in aircraft. Instead of static lines and trenches, troops were expected to “fight on the fly” and keep moving.

    Not only was the handiness of the VZ-24 looked at, but the compactness of the SMLE with its 26” barrel and Springfield Model 1903 with its 24” barrel; both of which performed well in the static trench warfare of the Great War. Another example of “compacting” an old design was the Finn Model 39 version of the otherwise long and ungainly 1891 designed Mosin-Nagant Model 91. Even the Soviets took the short route with the introduction of the Model 44 version of that same rife to meet the needs of modern mechanized warfare.
     
    #6
  7. Krag 30-40

    Krag 30-40 G&G Newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,101
    Likes Received:
    1
    A little addition information.Prior to WW1 FN was a German controlled sudsidiary of Ludwig Loewe &Co.(DWM) making Mausers under license.After the German surrender they were an independent company.They developed their Model 1924 with a 24in.barrel and sold it commercially.The Czech BRNO factory was equiped with a complete rifle building plant sold to them by the cash strapped Waffenfabrik Mauser after the end of the war.They developed their VZ24 about the same time as FN did their Model 1924.The Czechs and Belgians then found themselves in competion for the military markets that the Germans were unable to supply due to treaty terms.At the same time Mauser Werke developed their "Standard Modell"a 24 in.(actually 23.6in) barreled model very similiar to the K98k except for a straight bolt handle and sling attachment differences.Being forbidden to produce and sell them by treaty terms they set up a factory in Switzerland called Metall Waren Fabrik.They shipped the parts to that factory and assembled then there and sold them under that companies name.All three rifles were very similiar and developed at about the same time.There is quite a bit of information on this in Richard D.Laws book Backbone of the Wehrmacht where I obtained the information contained here.The K98k was basically a derivitive of the Mauser "Standard Modell"not the Gew98.
     
    #7
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 12, 2009
  8. PrivateWadley

    PrivateWadley G&G Newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2009
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gentlemen: Thank you for your responses. I believe you each have provided the overall information that I need. I see that the answer may not be definitive, but with your supporting facts, one can at least be prepared to discuss the issues with a measure of confidence.
     
    #8
Verification:
Draft saved Draft deleted