Gun and Game Forum banner
2821 - 2840 of 2876 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,643 Posts
I have done this. but the pistol primed .223 rounds were not for use in a rifle. they were for use in a powerhead. (a slam fired device that attaches to a spear gun spear or pole spear for killing large fish & sharks under water) because the .223 power heads have such a small diameter barrel, (the part that strikes the fish and causes the slam fire) they would often not fire or stick in the fish when hit in a soft body part. to try to remedy this, I loaded up .223 ammo with the softer cupped pistol primers. it worked a little better but I went back to using .44 mag. & .357 mag powerheads as they are a lot more reliable.
Am I good to go loading 9mm with small rifle primers. I thinking of loading with Blur Dot which I havn't loaded with before?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,770 Posts
another member here said he had some mis fires with the different primers. I had no problems with the CCI and Winchester sm. rifle primers that I used. load up a test batch and try the ones you have. its not a safety issue, just a reliability issue. as far as using Blue Dot, do it! I have just started using it in 9mm and am liking it. stick to the book data and you will be safe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,643 Posts
another member here said he had some mis fires with the different primers. I had no problems with the CCI and Winchester sm. rifle primers that I used. load up a test batch and try the ones you have. its not a safety issue, just a reliability issue. as far as using Blue Dot, do it! I have just started using it in 9mm and am liking it. stick to the book data and you will be safe.
I'm working on a batch of 9mm. What I'm finding some (5) bullets were loose in the case after seating bullet.. I was using RCBS die set. I went to a different die set that came with a crimping die. I've crimping rifle cases before crimping on conolure ring. I used the crimp die on these 5 9mm and crimp really made a ring on mouth of case, reminds me of a 7.63mm C96 round. Why would rounds come out loose in the case. I've done every thing I thought would solve this issue. Is it possible to have too much crimp causing chambering issues? The 4 die set with crimping die I havn't used before, I think its a Lee. Would the cases be bad not holding a seating bullet? Others seem to hold the seating bullet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,770 Posts
if all the other bullets were tight in the case, measure the diameter of the loose bullets. I have had that problem before and it drove me nuts. come to find out the bullets were undersized by a couple thousandths!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,643 Posts
if all the other bullets were tight in the case, measure the diameter of the loose bullets. I have had that problem before and it drove me nuts. come to find out the bullets were undersized by a couple thousandths!
Beautiful. Never considered that. Maybe its not some thing I was doing. Had these 9mms many many years. Bought them at a lgs 100 bullets for $10.00, that should tell you how long I've had these.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
482 Posts
I might try small rifle primers some time. Might have to. I still have a few hundred small pistol but, it seems I've been able to find small rifle lately. I've wondered about reliability too, but I'll see.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,770 Posts
most auto cases including the 9mm Luger, use a taper crimp. a roll crimp can sometimes bulge the brass causing a stuck cartridge if it gets chambered. also those calibers use the case mouth to headspace the cartridge.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,005 Posts
I think I finally figured out the loads for my 300 Win Mag chambered Rem 700. So I made enough to fill up my MTM box. Next stop is the thousand yard range to see how they do at distance.
220 grain Sierra Match Kings seated 10 thousands off the lands, IMR 4350 to send it out at 2650 fps.

I disassembled quite a few .450 bushmaster cases from load tests that didn't work out. I have one very promising test recipe and will work on another series starting with that as soon as I can get some bench time in. I'm also starting to question if chasing same-hole accuracy with an AR chambered in .450 bushmaster is a waste of time. Does it really need to shoot the tightest group possible? I may call one of the next series good enough and move on to something else...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,643 Posts
I need to know the difference between taper crimp and roll crimp. Some reason I just cant understand them. Explain it like I'm a 6 year old.I have crimp dies that crimp.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,962 Posts
I think I finally figured out the loads for my 300 Win Mag chambered Rem 700. So I made enough to fill up my MTM box. Next stop is the thousand yard range to see how they do at distance.
220 grain Sierra Match Kings seated 10 thousands off the lands, IMR 4350 to send it out at 2650 fps.

I disassembled quite a few .450 bushmaster cases from load tests that didn't work out. I have one very promising test recipe and will work on another series starting with that as soon as I can get some bench time in. I'm also starting to question if chasing same-hole accuracy with an AR chambered in .450 bushmaster is a waste of time. Does it really need to shoot the tightest group possible? I may call one of the next series good enough and move on to something else...
I do not have one but my buddy does. The round itself has great reviews. Tested: The .450 Bushmaster Ruger American Rifle Ranch | American Rifleman | Official Journal Of The NRA Land Pierce got 1.65 inch groups with both factory and hotter reloads. His AR did better than the bolt gun. FWIW
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dutch

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,962 Posts
Are my crimp dies taper crimp or roll crimp ?
A roll crimp has a little bump on it and the end of the case actually goes into the canellure or groove in the bullet. A taper crimp is straight. I will find some pictures in a sec. The roll crimp can be important on the hard recoil guns because a bullet can slide out of the case during recoil. In most semi auto pistols the front edge of the case is what stops the cartridge from going in further and holds it in place for firing. They need that square front of the case to hold them properly. If you put a roll crimp on them they often do not fit and hold the bullet where it needs to be. Usually they will not chamber. The factory crimp tools by Lee, squeeze the heck out of the front of the case so technically a taper crimp but solves the problem of a bullet getting loose. I use them on nearly everything now. In cases like the 357 Sig and the 400 Corbon that have short necks, the taper crimp is even more important to keep the bullet from being pushed back into the case. Hope that helps. I never cared for decades, just adjust the die to where they worked and moved on.
165097
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,643 Posts
So my Lee crimp die a roll crimp? Maybe I'll look at the die and make adjustments. I've ruined some 9mm with my crimp die. I've crimped rifle rounds with no problem. On my rifle crimp dies I can see the top of the round through the die. So the bullet on the right is a roll crimp? I'm still a little confused.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,962 Posts
So my Lee crimp die a roll crimp? Maybe I'll look at the die and make adjustments. I've ruined some 9mm with my crimp die. I've crimped rifle rounds with no problem. On my rifle crimp dies I can see the top of the round through the die. So the bullet on the right is a roll crimp? I'm still a little confused.
OK, if you buy a Lee die set it will have a roll crimp die in the set. The thing they call the Lee FACTORY crimp die is a totally different animal that you buy separately. It looks like this. You do not use it until after the ammo is loaded. When you push the bullet through this die where it sticks out like this, then the 4 little separate sections you see around the bullet are actually loose fingers. When you push the pullet through there those 4 little fingers push in from all 4 sides and make a wonderful crimp which is actually a taper crimp.
Audio equipment Gas Electric blue Household hardware Auto part
Audio equipment Gas Electric blue Household hardware Auto part .


If you are just pushing the bullet into the die and it comes out crimped, it should be a light roll crimp.

On a roll crimp you always have to be the correct length because if it is too long it will crush or wrinkle the case.. If you are crushing all of your 9mm, the die is set wrong. Just crank if out of the press a tiny bit, then test again. And crank it out a bit more if that does not solve the problem.

If you are crushing some of them, the ones crushed were not trimmed to the right size, they are too long and the should be crushed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,005 Posts
Good explanation on the crimps.

For what it's worth, I have a Lee factory crimp die for everything I load.
Way back in the dark times, when primers were $15 per thousand and readily available, I used cartridge gauges to make sure my roll crimp wasn't too tall. If the roll crimp is set too hard the ammo isn't going to feed reliably. At some point I heard about the Lee Factory Crimp dies. After trying one and realizing all the crimp issues are no longer a concern I started buying them for every cartridge I load. They are worth every penny of the $15 they cost.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,005 Posts
g
I do not have one but my buddy does. The round itself has great reviews. Tested: The .450 Bushmaster Ruger American Rifle Ranch | American Rifleman | Official Journal Of The NRA Land Pierce got 1.65 inch groups with both factory and hotter reloads. His AR did better than the bolt gun. FWIW
.450 Bushmaster is a neat cartridge, within it's limits of course. Mine is an AR-15 platform with a pre-built upper from Moriarti Arms, and it's pretty darned accurate. I was having some ejection issues right up front and had to shave the ejection port just a little wider to resolve it. The fat cartridge would clear the ejection port, but just barely. It rubbed top and bottom on the way out. Opening it up just a fuzz helped a lot.

When developing loads, shooting at 100 yards, a lot of my 3-shot test groups were over 2". The Hornady Black factory ammo will group under 1" every time (if I'm on my game...) on 5 shot groups. So I knew it could do better. The factory duplication load of 37.9g Lilgun with a 250g Hornady FTX is quite a good load but not quite on par with the factory ammunition.
After a lot of testing I found that, 39.2 g of H110 gives me excellent 3-shot groups. The total cartridge length has a rather short hard-limit due to these pointy bullets and the magazine limitations, normally with a load like this I would try a few different seating depths but it's not feasible on this cartridge in an AR-15 unless you want to go single shot and feed them one at a time. I do not want to do that. My next load tests will be based on that H110 load, going up and down just a touch to see if it gets better before it falls off.

I would like to figure out a load for the Hornady XTP bullets next.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,643 Posts
OK, if you buy a Lee die set it will have a roll crimp die in the set. The thing they call the Lee FACTORY crimp die is a totally different animal that you buy separately. It looks like this. You do not use it until after the ammo is loaded. When you push the bullet through this die where it sticks out like this, then the 4 little separate sections you see around the bullet are actually loose fingers. When you push the pullet through there those 4 little fingers push in from all 4 sides and make a wonderful crimp which is actually a taper crimp. View attachment 165120 View attachment 165120 .


If you are just pushing the bullet into the die and it comes out crimped, it should be a light roll crimp.

On a roll crimp you always have to be the correct length because if it is too long it will crush or wrinkle the case.. If you are crushing all of your 9mm, the die is set wrong. Just crank if out of the press a tiny bit, then test again. And crank it out a bit more if that does not solve the problem.

If you are crushing some of them, the ones crushed were not trimmed to the right size, they are too long and the should be crushed.
Thank you so much. I got it now.
 
2821 - 2840 of 2876 Posts
Top