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I'm just wondering if anyone has thought about over penetration? All I'm seeing is how well the FMJ penetrates when there is no mention of over penetration and an stray bullet going into the neighbors house. Sure the bad guy needs to be stopped, but there is other considerations.
"Over-penetration" is not an issue with .32 ACP hardball.
If a bullet does exit the body or perforates light residential construction it has low residual energy.
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"Over-penetration" is not an issue with .32 ACP hardball.
If a bullet does exit the body or perforates light residential construction it has low residual energy.
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BINGO! This is precisely my point!
If she can dump six rounds in either his belly or chest the fight/confrontation will likely end rather quickly. If he's lucky he just might make it into custody. If not, a 68-year-old woman fearing for her life makes a compelling case before a magistrate.

Thanks, brother.
 

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Please consider the fact that there are older people (in their 70s and older) that can't control, or carry a larger handgun. You can either resign them to the status of "victim" or encourage them to fight against a 200-pound malefactor with murderous intent.

If you would stuff your overinflated ego in a sock drawer, you may be able to put yourself in their place. These small guns are better than screaming or a fust full of keys, even pepper spray. Not everyone has that choice, or ability.

Think about it.
You are assuming way to much from my post and being a jerk. There are 380 pistols that are just as simple to use regardless of ones age or strength. Think nice before you reply.
 

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You are assuming way to much from my post and being a jerk. There are 380 pistols that are just as simple to use regardless of ones age or strength. Think nice before you reply.
Simple physics dictates my standpoint.
Remember:
"When bullets begin to fly, the discussion becomes moot."
There isn't any "nice" when someone has been shot, only death or injury. Survival is imperative.
 

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Discussion Starter · #85 ·
in my quest to make a mountain out of a mole hill, (magnum .32 aacp? :rolleyes:) I got some .32 85gr f.p. plated bullets to try in my Berretta 81. today I sized & primed a couple hundred cases. as soon as I find more data on that "heavywieght" bullet, I load a few test rounds.
 

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in my quest to make a mountain out of a molehill, (magnum .32 aacp? :rolleyes:) I got some .32 85gr f.p. plated bullets to try in my Berretta 81. today I sized & primed a couple hundred cases. as soon as I find more data on that "heavywieght" bullet, I load a few test rounds.
This is a common misconception for the 7.65 x 17 (.32 ACP) cartridge. More mass will not enhance the cartridge's "stopping power". This is why the .32 NAA cartridge would have been a better choice had it been chambered in a larger pistol with a longer barrel. The 71-grain bullet stepping out at 1100 fps from a 4" barrel would have provided better penetration.
Expansion in the small-bore calibers isn't reliable; penetration is the key to the efficacy of the projectile.
 

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Discussion Starter · #87 ·
thats why I am going to see if I can push the 85 gr. bullets as fast or close to the 71 gr. bullets. simple physics. more weight at the same speed = more kinetic energy. using a solid bullet, I'm not interested in expansion. if I can get the same diameter bullet but in a heavier weight to go close to the same speed as the lighter bullet, theoretically, it should penetrate farther. although the 85 gr. bullets I have are flat point design and that might slightly decrease penetration, but the tissue damage caused by the flat v.s. round nose will be a good trade off. we shall see.
I ordered a 16 lb. recoil spring for the Beretta. when it gets here, I will start the range tests.
still looking for heavier bullet recipes. preferably using Bullseye, Unique or Red Dot. I also have H-110, AA #9, Blue Dot and Longshot pistol powders on hand but I doubt there is any data for them with the .32 acp.
 

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thats why I am going to see if I can push the 85 gr. bullets as fast or close to the 71 gr. bullets. simple physics. more weight at the same speed = more kinetic energy. using a solid bullet, I'm not interested in expansion. if I can get the same diameter bullet but in a heavier weight to go close to the same speed as the lighter bullet, theoretically, it should penetrate farther. although the 85 gr. bullets I have are flat point design and that might slightly decrease penetration, but the tissue damage caused by the flat v.s. round nose will be a good trade-off. we shall see.
I ordered a 16 lb. recoil spring for the Beretta. when it gets here, I will start the range tests.
still looking for heavier bullet recipes. preferably using Bullseye, Unique or Red Dot. I also have H-110, AA #9, Blue Dot and Longshot pistol powders on hand but I doubt there is any data for them with the .32 acp.
I fear you might overpressure the case(s) causing either rupture or head separation. Such a case failure may damage you, the pistol, or both.

Proceed with caution, brother.
 

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Discussion Starter · #89 ·
I will be careful! 😁 I don't expect magnum performance just a few more ft. lbs. on target. but given that the European & surplus stuff is so much hotter, I think it can safely be done. I have some similar experience doing this but with the 10mm and.45 Super and I haven't blown up anything yet. :rolleyes:
 

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As with many other pistol rounds, when you think about the .32 ACP (or the 9x18 Makarov, or the 7.62 Tokarev, or the .380 ACP, for that matter) raw power - the terminal energy delivered on target - is not half as important as shot placement. Awhile back, I read something in one or another of the gun magazines that was discussing pistols for concealed carry by older folks. One of those interviewed was a retired cop in his seventies who had been in a few firefights in his time. When asked what he carried, he told them he carried a .32 ACP Llama. When asked if he thought he was under-gunned, he chuckled and said, "With this .32, I can put a round through each of your shirt buttons in less time than it takes to tell it. That's what matters."

I'm inclined to agree with him. Dad, who saw more than his share of combat in World War II, was fond of telling me, "A million rounds that miss the target are not worth as much as one round that hits it." And in the case of pistols chambered for small rounds like the ones I mentioned, the so-called "mouse guns, " the bullets tend to tumble and ricochet off bone, so they will cause more damage than you might expect. Plus, unlike the heavy caliber rounds, they will dump all their energy into the target instead of punching a hole all the way through and out the back. Plus again, with little felt recoil and muzzle rise, it is easier to stay on target that with a big boomer that spanks your hand and can smack you right between the eyes if you aren't careful. I always tell people that the pistol they should carry or use for home defense is the one they shoot the best. For most folks, that is not a .357 Magnum or a S&W Model 29, or an AMT Automag hand cannon. For some, it's not even a .45 ACP or a 9mm Parabellum. If a "mouse gun" lets them put the bullets where the shooter wants them to go, that's the one for them.
 

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As with many other pistol rounds, when you think about the .32 ACP (or the 9x18 Makarov, or the 7.62 Tokarev, or the .380 ACP, for that matter) raw power - the terminal energy delivered on target - is not half as important as shot placement. Awhile back, I read something in one or another of the gun magazines that was discussing pistols for concealed carry by older folks. One of those interviewed was a retired cop in his seventies who had been in a few firefights in his time. When asked what he carried, he told them he carried a .32 ACP Llama. When asked if he thought he was under-gunned, he chuckled and said, "With this .32, I can put a round through each of your shirt buttons in less time than it takes to tell it. That's what matters."

I'm inclined to agree with him. Dad, who saw more than his share of combat in World War II, was fond of telling me, "A million rounds that miss the target are not worth as much as one round that hits it." And in the case of pistols chambered for small rounds like the ones I mentioned, the so-called "mouse guns, " the bullets tend to tumble and ricochet off bone, so they will cause more damage than you might expect. Plus, unlike the heavy caliber rounds, they will dump all their energy into the target instead of punching a hole all the way through and out the back. Plus again, with little felt recoil and muzzle rise, it is easier to stay on target that with a big boomer that spanks your hand and can smack you right between the eyes if you aren't careful. I always tell people that the pistol they should carry or use for home defense is the one they shoot the best. For most folks, that is not a .357 Magnum or a S&W Model 29, or an AMT Automag hand cannon. For some, it's not even a .45 ACP or a 9mm Parabellum. If a "mouse gun" lets them put the bullets where the shooter wants them to go, that's the one for them.
There was an old Police Detective in El Paso, Texas that was shooting on the pistol range. The Detective had been asked by sniggering younger officers why he carried an "inferior" cartridge like the .32 ACP.

The older man then drew his Colt M1903 .32 from his "behind the right hip" OWB holster. In less than three seconds the cop dumped six 71-grain FMJ rounds in a 3-inch circle at 7 yards. The younger officers stopped laughing and the range took on a solemn tone.

Would you care to guess why?
 

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As with many other pistol rounds, when you think about the .32 ACP (or the 9x18 Makarov, or the 7.62 Tokarev, or the .380 ACP, for that matter) raw power - the terminal energy delivered on target - is not half as important as shot placement. Awhile back, I read something in one or another of the gun magazines that was discussing pistols for concealed carry by older folks. One of those interviewed was a retired cop in his seventies who had been in a few firefights in his time. When asked what he carried, he told them he carried a .32 ACP Llama. When asked if he thought he was under-gunned, he chuckled and said, "With this .32, I can put a round through each of your shirt buttons in less time than it takes to tell it. That's what matters."

I'm inclined to agree with him. Dad, who saw more than his share of combat in World War II, was fond of telling me, "A million rounds that miss the target are not worth as much as one round that hits it." And in the case of pistols chambered for small rounds like the ones I mentioned, the so-called "mouse guns, " the bullets tend to tumble and ricochet off bone, so they will cause more damage than you might expect. Plus, unlike the heavy caliber rounds, they will dump all their energy into the target instead of punching a hole all the way through and out the back. Plus again, with little felt recoil and muzzle rise, it is easier to stay on target that with a big boomer that spanks your hand and can smack you right between the eyes if you aren't careful. I always tell people that the pistol they should carry or use for home defense is the one they shoot the best. For most folks, that is not a .357 Magnum or a S&W Model 29, or an AMT Automag hand cannon. For some, it's not even a .45 ACP or a 9mm Parabellum. If a "mouse gun" lets them put the bullets where the shooter wants them to go, that's the one for them.
I carried the Seecamp as a backup or front pocket gun for many years. I shoot Corbon or Silvertips in it, by design it was created for Silvertips and many brands are just too long. I like the gun a lot., but lost confidence in it.

I had a huge armadillo that would not leave. Sprayed him with water, shot him with a bb gun etc. He would actually run at you, dogs, kids etc. So he did his little attack and I shot him in the center of his back. He ran off, I had to chase him down and shoot him again. and he ran a little bit further and died. Both shots were center of armadillo. Maybe the shell slowed down the bucket, but I lost confidence that day.

I have killed lots of varmints with the 380, even a crippled deer once with great success. The 380 is far better if you have a choice. The Guns like the Cheeta or new Ruger LCP ten rounds are great. My LCP Custom, the old one with sights, will shoot 2.5 inch groups, two hand hold at 50 feet.

I also carried the 22 mag NAA as a pocket gun in law enforcement. I dumped it also in favor of the 380. They are just too slow and limited , cool Guns but not for fighting. I carried a 25 acp and Jennings 22 as back up as well. I just do not trust the 32. When you can have a same size gun in 380. Now, go to theb32 H and R magnum, totally different story. Home defense is also a different story.

Whatever works.
 

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I carried the Seecamp as a backup or front pocket gun for many years. I shoot Corbon or Silvertips in it, by design it was created for Silvertips and many brands are just too long. I like the gun a lot., but lost confidence in it.

I had a huge armadillo that would not leave. Sprayed him with water, shot him with a bb gun, etc. He would actually run at you, dogs, kids, etc. So he did his little attack and I shot him in the center of his back. He ran off, I had to chase him down and shoot him again. and he ran a little bit further and died. Both shots were center-of-armadillo. Maybe the shell slowed down the bucket, but I lost confidence that day.

I have killed lots of varmints with the 380, even a crippled deer once with great success. The 380 is far better if you have a choice. The Guns like the Cheetah or new Ruger LCP ten rounds are great. My LCP Custom, the old one with sights, will shoot 2.5-inch groups, two hand hold at 50 feet.

I also carried the 22 mag NAA as a pocket gun in law enforcement. I dumped it also in favor of the 380. They are just too slow and limited, cool Guns but not for fighting. I carried a 25 ACP and Jennings 22 as a backup as well. I just do not trust the 32. When you can have the same size gun in 380. Now, go to the .32 H and R magnum, totally different story. Home defense is also a different story.

Whatever works.
I understand. The .32 ACP was created to shoot ball ammunition. The only real improvement that truly enhances its performance is the solid copper Lehigh Extreme Defender bullet load. The lethality of said cartridge cannot be improved by the use of hollowpoint ammunition. It just isn't in the cards.

I repeat myself at the risk of sounding redundant. When it come to the .32 ACP (a.k.a. 7.65 Browning and/or7.65 X 17) penetration is your friend.

Enough said.
 

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I will be careful! 😁 I don't expect magnum performance just a few more ft. lbs. on target. but given that the European & surplus stuff is so much hotter, I think it can safely be done. I have some similar experience doing this but with the 10mm and.45 Super and I haven't blown up anything yet. :rolleyes:
A famous gun writer once stated, "If Magnum performance is desired, a magnum cartridge (chambering) should be chosen." Truer words have rarely been spoken.

While the .32 ACP isn't a "Magnum" cartridge, European loadings (and Lehigh Copper Extreme Defender) loads will place it on an equal footing with the 9X17 Browning (.380 ACP). This has been borne out with both gelatin tests and real street shootings. The Europeans know what works in the "smaller" handguns and load said cartridges accordingly.

It doesn't take a "rocket scientist" or ballistic physics major to determine this. Common "horse sense" works rather well. The United States Gun Manufacturers have been "lawyered" to death. This forces them to load down the cartridge so that it won't batter 123-year-old handguns to pieces. Modern handguns are tough enough to take the European loads.
 

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Discussion Starter · #96 ·
I wish I had bought some of those CZ 70 s & 50s when they first hit the market. But I was too busy scarping up the $129. CZ 82s , $99. CZ 52s, $175. P-64s and $89. Yugo SKS s.:rolleyes: I was tempted but at that time I didn't have much respect for the little.32 acp. now I have my regrets. boo hoo! I am really glad I did buy the Beretta 81 though. it is a sweet shooter, and the double stack magazine makes it a more viable weapon if I ever did actually carry it.
 

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I wish I had bought some of those CZ 70 s & 50s when they first hit the market. But I was too busy scarping up the $129. CZ 82s , $99. CZ 52s, $175. P-64s and $89. Yugo SKS s.:rolleyes: I was tempted but at that time I didn't have much respect for the little.32 acp. now I have my regrets. boo hoo! I am really glad I did buy the Beretta 81 though. it is a sweet shooter, and the double stack magazine makes it a more viable weapon if I ever did actually carry it.
You can still pick up the Zastava M70 single-action is still being manufactured and can be had for reasonable prices.

Air gun Trigger Gun barrel Gun accessory Metal


They shoot well and have a 3.7" barrel. You can shoot anything you want tin it because they are an all-steel pistol. (European loads are standard fodder for these handguns).

They can be had for about $280 - $300. They're well worth the "price of admission".



 

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I carried the Seecamp as a backup or front pocket gun for many years. I shoot Corbon or Silvertips in it, by design it was created for Silvertips and many brands are just too long. I like the gun a lot., but lost confidence in it.

I had a huge armadillo that would not leave. Sprayed him with water, shot him with a bb gun etc. He would actually run at you, dogs, kids etc. So he did his little attack and I shot him in the center of his back. He ran off, I had to chase him down and shoot him again. and he ran a little bit further and died. Both shots were center of armadillo. Maybe the shell slowed down the bucket, but I lost confidence that day.

I have killed lots of varmints with the 380, even a crippled deer once with great success. The 380 is far better if you have a choice. The Guns like the Cheeta or new Ruger LCP ten rounds are great. My LCP Custom, the old one with sights, will shoot 2.5-inch groups, two hands hold at 50 feet.

I also carried the 22 mag NAA as a pocket gun in law enforcement. I dumped it also in favor of the 380. They are just too slow and limited, cool Guns but not for fighting. I carried a 25 ACP and Jennings 22 as backup as well. I just do not trust the 32. When you can have the same size gun in 380. Now, go to theb32 H and R magnum, totally different story. Home defense is also a different story.

Whatever works.
The big problem with the Seecamp pistol is/was one of barrel length. The short barrel robs the Winchester Silvertip of velocity (a rare commodity in the .32 ACP). This causes the hollowpoint round to either,
a) underpenetrate, or,
b) run like slower "ball" ammunition.
It is better to have a 71-grain FMJ pill quickly penetrate, or have an "Extreme Defender"perform in a similar manner with it accompanying tissue disruption. I have seen plenty of videos that bear this out.
 

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You can still pick up the Zastava M70 single-action is still being manufactured and can be had for reasonable prices.

They shoot well and have a 3.7" barrel. You can shoot anything you want in it because they are an all-steel pistol. (European loads are standard fodder for these handguns).

They can be had for about $280 - $300. They're well worth the "price of admission".
Please refresh my memory. In ten words or less, the M70 is a pocket pistol in .32 ACP built with the Tokarev action. Am I correct? If it is, I'd like one ... if I could ever find one. Never have seen one around here, but heaven knows I like the Tok. It seems to suit me.
 

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Please refresh my memory. In ten words or less, the M70 is a pocket pistol in .32 ACP built with the Tokarev action. Am I correct? If it is, I'd like one ... if I could ever find one. Never have seen one around here, but heaven knows I like the Tok. It seems to suit me.
It is similar in a few respects (I own one). The Fire Control Group lifts from the frame after the slide has been removed. Here is an excellent video of complete disassembly.


If you look around online you can find one as Zastava is still making them. (Don't give up the ship).

In a tight spot, using Buffalo Bore, Underwood (Lehigh "Extreme Defender"), or European loads, this "little" pistol would likely save your life. Believe me when I tell you that such an arrangement beats pepper spray, a fist full of keys, or shouting obcenities.

I highly recommend this excellent pistol. :cool:(y):love:
 
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