[Rocky7]

information:

Crazy.

 

[Ranger4]

I sure hope that this 'plan' you have for your shooting goes as you 'plan', but I have news for you, IT PROPERLY WILL NOT! You MAY not get a chance for the 'second' shot!!!
I am not angry, just frustrated when I see bad information/advise posted which could get someone seriously injured or killed. You said it is 'reasonable' to use bird shot for SD, your advise from a previous post. Well is it reasonable to advise people to use a 22LR as SD caliber, or to use FMJ/non-expanding bullets for SD?? They CAN both stop an attack. If you think bird shot is 'reasonable' to use for SD then you agree that a 22LR and FMJ bullets are 'reasonable' for SD.
The point is THERE IS A BEST TOOL (in this case ammo) FOR A GIVEN JOB! If you are going to give advise on the this subject PLEASE give good advise, as people my actually give you some credibility!
This threat is asking what is the BEST ammo for this situation, not what ammo CAN WORK. It is a question of probability verse possibility. So if you want to use substandard tools (ammo) for the job that is your RIGHT, but PLEASE do not advise others to make the same mistake!!!

I see now why you are so frustrated. The first 6 people who responded to the OP and then myself all commented that under the circumstances his choice of a heavy field load with 1.25 ounces of bird shot was reasonable under the circumstances, that is to limit penetration. Those first 6 commentators do not seem to be rookies here and many had details to support their opinion. They have between 4,000-22,000 posts as I see, which says to me they have been around long enough to know a little about guns and what they can do. Others later in the thread took an opposite approach and recommended slugs or bigger bird shot, even though the OP had a primary worry about pellets going through apartment walls.

Here is an example of what one stray bullet can do. I know the grandfather personally who stood and watched his 5 year old grandson die from a 40 SW bullet that was not stopped by dense brush and trees. It was a long time ago, but still makes the point. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/20145084/ns/us_news-life/t/stray-bullet-kills-boy-fishing-oklahoma/
Opinions vary.

 

[FortyXDM]

Let's not let this thread become uncivil. Remember that many threads that go sideways because of stubbornness. We nearly all from time to time mix opinions as fact. They are facts to us, but are
empirical as much as scientific.

 

[neophyte]

Ranger4: Sir; another horrible story.
Generally. I follow-up. Looking to see what has next happened.
This is hard

 

[Ranger4]

Ranger4: Sir; another horrible story.
Generally. I follow-up. Looking to see what has next happened.
This is hard

Both officers, a patrol officer and his sergeant plead guilty to Second Degree Involuntary Manslaughter. and were booted out of law enforcement at the time. I was told the shot was with a 40 SW but news reports says it was a 357. Either way, both the shooter and his boss were charged with manslaughter for shooting at a snake without a backstop which killed the boy down the road. Any time a bullet leaves your property, you own it as they say. https://kfor.com/news/officers-record-cleared-after-deadly-shooting/

 

[Jim Rau]

I see now why you are so frustrated. The first 6 people who responded to the OP and then myself all commented that under the circumstances his choice of a heavy field load with 1.25 ounces of bird shot was reasonable under the circumstances, that is to limit penetration. Those first 6 commentators do not seem to be rookies here and many had details to support their opinion. They have between 4,000-22,000 posts as I see, which says to me they have been around long enough to know a little about guns and what they can do. Others later in the thread took an opposite approach and recommended slugs or bigger bird shot, even though the OP had a primary worry about pellets going through apartment walls.

Here is an example of what one stray bullet can do. I know the grandfather personally who stood and watched his 5 year old grandson die from a 40 SW bullet that was not stopped by dense brush and trees. It was a long time ago, but still makes the point. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/20145084/ns/us_news-life/t/stray-bullet-kills-boy-fishing-oklahoma/
Opinions vary.

You just don't get it! Do as you please. I post so that when someone comes here to get information/advise they have the opportunity to get more than on side. If they think your links/pics and OPINION are more credible than mine, and others, REAL life EXPERIENCE and FACTS so be it, that is their mistake they must live with. I will leave it up to those who 'read' this thread to see which side makes more (common) sense! Nuff said!

 

[Ranger4]

OK.

 

[410dude]

My 12g is loaded with #4 birdshot.
One has to suffer thru ads for this video

 

[Outpost75]

Lead BB from an 18" barrel shotgun penetrates 6-7" of gelatin. That is the smallest shot size which should be considered for home defense and BB is only effective at short ranges of less than 50 feet, basically inside the house. Smaller shot will make an ugly surface wound, but are inadequate to penetrate through ribs and sternum to reach vital organs.

#4 buck from an 18" barrel shotgun penetrates 14" in gelatin and is the recommended tactical load for interior guard and corrections use where risk of collateral damage must be minimized. It is best within 25 yards.

#00 buck in the "low recoil" law enforcement load when fired from an 18" barrel penetrates 20 inches of gelatin and is recommended for tactical use when range is likely to exceed 25 yards.

 

[Jim Rau]

Lead BB from an 18" barrel shotgun penetrates 6-7" of gelatin. That is the smallest shot size which should be considered for home defense and BB is only effective at short ranges of less than 50 feet, basically inside the house. Smaller shot will make an ugly surface wound, but are inadequate to penetrate through ribs and sternum to reach vital organs.

#4 buck from an 18" barrel shotgun penetrates 14" in gelatin and is the recommended tactical load for interior guard and corrections use where risk of collateral damage must be minimized. It is best within 25 yards.

#00 buck in the "low recoil" law enforcement load when fired from an 18" barrel penetrates 20 inches of gelatin and is recommended for tactical use when range is likely to exceed 25 yards.

Thank you!!! That is what I have been trying to get across to those who wish to us a shotgun for SD.

 

[Jaison]

My 12g is loaded with #4 birdshot.
One has to suffer thru ads for this video

Wonder if that was Paul’s first meat target?

 

[410dude]

Wonder if that was Paul’s first meat target?

I don't know, lol. He also did one using steel shot, it didn't fair as well as lead shot.

 

[blue fox]

You know perhaps threads like this should be handled like a school debate. Each side presents its argument without getting personal. Then the judge (in this case the OP) makes their decision based on that argument and evidence. Personal shots at somebody who disagrees are the easiest way to drive folks away from our forum and hobby. As a since passed member was fond of saying "It don't cost nothing to be nice." Just my humble 2 cents on what I am seeing.

 

[FortyXDM]

IF you wish to have ultimate and TOTAL security.......well, you can't. It doesn't exist !
However there are indeed a few safety devices that may prolong your existence on earth and help you to achieve your "golden years" These devices need not be overly expensive, and are offered by Beretta, Browning, Colt, Glock, H&R, Heckler & Koch, Henry, Kel Tec, Kimber, Liberty Arms, Mauser, Mossberg, Panther, Remington, Ruger, S&W, Sig, Springfield Armory, and Walther, .........
Just to name a few.

 

[Ten Man]

Wonder if that was Paul’s first meat target?

Nope!

 

[Ten Man]

A responsible home defense shotgun owner should want to minimize the risk of penetrating walls and hurting people on the other side with having effective bad-guy stopping power. Is there a shot size that is not likely to penetrate drywall while still being likely to stop a dangerous home invader with one shot? Google is fraught with websites posing this question and there are a bunch of controversial answers. Some say #4 buck. Others say #1 buck.

I emailed a nearby firearms safety training school a short while back with this question and the only thing I have gotten so far is static. Do they they want me to pay money to take their course so I then can get an answer?

Is there a resource where gun owners can ask technical firearms questions and get expert advice?

I have been keeping #4 fowl loads, not buckshot loads, at home for my defender scattergun but I ran into some web article not long ago stating that this is a bad choice for defense. I bought these from a gun shop because the guy there recommend them. Now I'm rethinking this over. Certainly what I have now beats a baseball bat or mace can but still.

My 12g is loaded with #4 birdshot.
One has to suffer thru ads for this video

My home defense shotgun is also loaded with Federal #4 Bird Shot loads, the old LEAD pellet loads. Paul Herrel's video tells you everything you need to know to answer your question.:usa2:

 

[Jaison]

Nope!

You referencing the SD shooting?

Will have to go back and watch his videos again. Been watching since the sideburn days.

 

[neophyte]

Information: Paul Herrel's

 

[blue fox]

Nope!

Welcome back to the world sir.

 

[blue fox]

I see that a number of videos have been posted on info for the op. I have not watched them but assume they provide good data. That being said if the op has the time, money, space and desire perhaps doing some of his own testing would answer his questions. Most, if not all, apartment walls are probably not over 6 inches thick based on my observations of construction. Perhaps building some wall sections and setting them at different distances, using different shot loads would give the answers he is looking for. I would guess that the average shooting distance in an apartment would not be much more than 10 to 12 feet. Walls would not consist of more than 2x4 studs, 5/8ths inch sheetrock and some fiberglass insulation. Some 3'x3' test panels should provide answers. Just my thoughts again.