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What rifle and why in a combat situation?

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by LOCKnLOAD, May 24, 2002.

Which do you select in combat and bet your life with?

  1. AR15, M16 varient

    58 vote(s)
    32.4%
  2. AK47, AK74

    54 vote(s)
    30.2%
  3. Mini-14

    8 vote(s)
    4.5%
  4. M14

    44 vote(s)
    24.6%
  5. M1 Garand

    14 vote(s)
    7.8%
  6. M1 Carbine

    5 vote(s)
    2.8%
  7. G3, FAL

    24 vote(s)
    13.4%
  8. ...others not mentioned

    20 vote(s)
    11.2%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. If you were going into combat and needed to chose a selection of arms, what would you choose and why?

    I am curious as to what comments we will have...

    As for me I will leave the AR at home, simply because I cannot bet my life on it. It requires too much cleaning in the field, and sometimes you are not able to clean it due to combat situations.

    My selection is my mini-14, and a quality AK.

    A shooting buddy of mine almost got killed in combat in Nam in 66 because of a fouled up M16. It jammed and he tossed it in favor of the M14 for the rest of his 2 year tour. He never regreted it, cept for his few bros' that got wasted by jammed M16's.



    :assult: :nod:
     
  2. Wayne

    Wayne G&G Newbie

    Shot 'um all Will choose M14 or M1A
     

  3. Klaus

    Klaus G&G Newbie

    I would take my scoped M17s, as well as my starlight scope in a bag. My M17 now has a good trigger, is extremely accurate, compact, utterly reliable, and uses regular M16/AR-15 mags. It is also easy to clean and because of the piston, it does not have the M16 fouling problem.
    I would also consider my DR200, for pretty much the same reasons, but I do not have much experience with it yet.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2002
  4. Eric

    Eric G&G Newbie

    673
    0
    USA
    Well,
    My job in the Army allows me/us to choose what weapons we depoly with. That is part of the decision-making process determined in ISO. I've deployed to combat several times, although I have only 11 1/2 months in a direct combat zone. I'll tell you straight up....it all depends on the mission. for example, if you are going to be static in a desert envronment or door-kicking for a Direct-Action takedown your choice of weapons will be quite different. Another major concern is how much humping is envolved. My favorite weapon is the m14, however, if you have an extremely long infil, every single ounce matters ALOT.
    I deployed to Africa and my weapon of choice was the AK47. I carried it for 5 1/2 months and never had a single malfunction. My preference was an AK74, but the availability of ammo leaned it toward the 47. So I reckon what I'm trying to say is my weapons of choice are:

    Static/desert: M-14
    Door kicking: MP-5
    General: AK-74

    That's my two- cents anyway. Good Shooting! Eric

    oh by the way, our M4A1s (full instead of burst) are pieces of ****!. We get them replaced every two years and they still fall apart. I don't understand it...I almost never have problems with my personal ARs.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2002
  5. Big Dog

    Big Dog Retired IT Dinosaur Wrangler Forum Contributor

    My choice would be the M14. It knocks 'em down and keeps 'em down. I trust it. But, I don't have one. If I had to go to the hills right now, I'd take my M17S Bushpup. Good ammo availability from likely opponents (you know those blue helmets?).
     
  6. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    Well I picked most of them cause I could. It would depend on where, what was available, and who we were fighting. If it was on campus, it would be an M14, because of all the wide open spaces, need for penetration of cover (trees), familiarity with the round, fast charging, butt-stroke ability, familiarity with similar action (M1) and versatility (ability to use detachable mag, ability to load from top, etc.
    If I was fighting in the forest with more cover and more ways to get dirty, I'd use an HK-91.
    If the setting was urban and we were fighting guys with AKs, I might pick up one of them or use my SKS-D and grab their mags.
     
  7. Hans R Colt

    Hans R Colt G&G Newbie

    105
    0
    I don't mind a heavy rifle as long as it'll do the job...Look, the M14 comes closest to reliability next to the AK, and those ARVN's in 'Nam lugged them all day with no complaints, even if they never popped a cap with 'em. Even those kidnapper Abu Sayyafs in PI still carry M14's !
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2002
  8. tommy

    tommy G&G Enthusiast

    well i would take the ak 47 for it's reliability. it has proven it'self more than once in evry enviroment. and it keeps on fireing.cause the waether and the abuse that the weapon takes is never the sameso why not have a gun that you know is goin to fire when you want it too no matter what the conditions are. .those other guns are nice too but you have to watch how you treat them.not to mention the bullets you can lay down with the ak47 and theak74 can't be beat at least that's my 2cents if you try to fire that many rounds in those other guns something is goin to give.i wish the ar15 had a reputation like the ak47.i really like the ar15 for it's pin point accuracy.but the ak74 ain't to for behind it.




    ( use what you know works best and hope for the best that's all you can do)
     
  9. Armilite A10 all the bells a whistles of the M16 and the power of the M14.
    Its all the best rolled into one, range and firepower.
    But If I was in the exstream cold or jungle I would pick the AK no other reason than its proven reliability in bad conditions. I really don't like the 7.62X39 If I could find an AK in 308 that would be the cats meow.
     
  10. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    Well, Colt 45, you're in luck... there are plenty of AKs in 308 nowadays.

    There's the classic Yugo M90 (I think that's what they call it), which usually cost over a grand since they're rare.

    New manufactured ones include the Saiga and VEPR, and adaptations of them.

    Highest quality is without a doubt the VEPR II. Only problem I see is that they're barrel heavy. Now they originally come with a ten round mag, but Kreb's custom guns converts them to use M14 mags for $100. I saw one for $500 at a gun show, everywhere else is closer to 600.

    Krebs also makes 308 rifles on an RPK receiver using Galil or other kinds of mags.

    My opinion is that the AK action wasn't designed for full power cartridges. I'd only get ones in intermediate calibers, but that's just me. Plenty of people swear by their 308 AKs. Hey, anyone know where Joecrow ended up? He was a huge fan of the Saiga 308.
     
  11. Klaus

    Klaus G&G Newbie

    The regular AKM actions aren't designed for a full power cartridge. That is why most of the Saiga .308 parts will not interchange with normal AK parts. The Saiga action was beefed up. The annoying thing is, the also make the .308 in a 7.62x39 version, but they deliberately made it incompatible with the regular AK magazines. The catch is is very similar, but the dimensions are slightly different.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2002
  12. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    I've heard of people adapting AK mags to work in Saigas, but I think it was with questionable effectiveness. I wish there were better companies that did mods like Hesse, of course you've said yours works well so I dunno. I'd sure like to see one in person.
     
  13. I think you are wrong on the reliability of the M14. That long op rod has a tendency to get bent under harsh conditions. You want a rifle that near the AK in reliability, you gotta go with the FAL or the G3. I've carried both the M-1 and the M14 in uniform. The M1 is too klunky by today's standards and the M14 doesn't have the ergonomics and has way too "elegant" design (bolt roller, oprod style gas system) . Plus, if it ever breaks, it's a B1TCH to repair in the field. Field repairs is one are where the FAL shines, even above AKs.

    I gotta go with a FAL carbine.

    [​IMG]

     
  14. Klaus

    Klaus G&G Newbie

    Well, my Hesse AK in 5.56x45 is in the middle of the rifle picture I posted in the Gun Room. It is pictured with an AK-74 type mag, rather than the adapter and M16 mag.
     
  15. I wish you hadn't lumped the G3 and the FAL in the same category. I'd take a FAL in a heartbeat, but I'd take and AK or an M14 over a G3.
     
  16. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    Now why AK and M14 over G3? I'd pick the M14 over G3 to use in a region like my campus, but a G3 if I had to fight in the woods. G3 has very high durability. The roller delayed blowback system mashes dirt like butter. Easier to clean too, in my opinion.
    AK I think is a different world, being a different caliber. Feels completely different. Now if we're talking full auto rather than civilian semi versions then I have zero experience there.
     
  17. Well, I was at a commercial range one day with a buch of guys with MBRs burning up cheap Portuguese 308, and on dumb S.0.B. baked up into a rifle rack and spilled a bunch of guns onto the concrete (ouch!). then he proceded to step on them to keep his balance and the cocking tube on a Century G3 took most of the weight. It partially crushed the cocking tube to the point that the cocking handle was inoperable.

    No that kind of accident could make any MBR inop, but it seemed inordinately easy on the G3.

    That, and I liked milled receivers more than I do stamped sheet metal. Yeah, I know that late model AKs come with sheet metal, but you can still get milled receivers on AKs too.
     
  18. Well, buy the poll results looks like the M14 and AK rule here. My question is this...that the reason the M14 is on top is because you would want to engage your target at maximum range?,,or just because the .308 has a bigger punch than other rounds?

    ...this is of course if you can hit your target in the first place.


    Personally I think that modern combat warfare will be in short city type of environments, and that a battle rifle with a good medium range round will be best, with the long range left to a bolt action since it is more accurate at long distance than the semi-auto.

    :assult: :nod:
     
  19. Nope, it's penetration. Think about it...this is America. We don't worry about thugs. We don't worry about terrorists. Who do we worry about and what do they wear that needs penetrating?
     
  20. Sarge

    Sarge G&G Enthusiast

    which rifle?

    I agree with FAL?. I'd take an FAL, or almost anything else, over a G3 any day of the week! Too heavy and kicks to damm hard. Also if you want a full power round type weapon with full auto capability the FAL is very controllable - the M14 is a POS!!!
    I have both an M14 and a select fire FAL and I only shoot the 14 on FA when I want to impress someone with how worthless it is.
    My choice on the quiz is AR 15, M16 type - with the M16A2 in mind.
    ALL of the previous problems with the M16 & even the M16A1 were solved with the A2. Also it is light so you can carry a lot of ammo. Of course I would want mine equipped with a 4 position selector - hard detent override from burst to full auto, and a zero after each trigger squeze on the burst - like the Canadians bought their M16A2s.
    Saw someone comment that the M4 carbines were falling apart after only a couple of years. Stupid Army should have stuck with the CAR 15 (XM177E2). I carried one in RVN and Never had a problem with it!
    Sarge