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Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by genwinters, Apr 4, 2008.
I know this seems stupid, but what are the specifics?
Hmmm not stupid my friend, if you don't know it makes sense to ask. Fact is the difference is exactly what the terms mean. Concealed means you carry the firearm in a concealed manner not noticable through casual observation. Open carry means you are carrying the firearm in plain sight in a manner easily observable to any person.
ok michigan allows both, would just open carry mean a holster on your hip? concealed means small of the back or somewhere else hidden? do i have that correct?
Generally, that is correct. Open carry is normally on your hip, but some would say a shoulder holster worn on the outside is also open carry... which technically it is. I have also heard that some states say that if you can't see the firearm from 3 sides, it's concealed, so it really depends on your state laws.
For much, much more on open carry, check out a site I frequent as much as this one (but only the WA state forum): OpenCarry.org
Also, for WA, being in a vehicle (whether open or concealed) with a loaded firearm requires a WA CPL.
thanks alot guys, i will do alot more research on michigan laws. well i will probably be in the Republik of Kalifornia by the time i can get my permit (going to be a Marine). if i am stationed somewhere else in the US i will get a concealed carry
depends on your state. In NC you see alot of gun racks that is for open carry cant get much more open than that. you can also carry a pistol openly that is a little harder to do need to be on the dash ect. but the main thing is if you get pulled over or go through a license check be sure to inform the officer you have one. carry open on you person depends on severel factors. if it is you land no problem, if you are out hunting no problem, if you are in public it starts to ge iffy we have a law that you cant go armed to the "terror of the public" wich basicly means if some cry-baby complains you terrorized him. you are not likely to be charged but will likely be asked to leave or lock up you weapon. so if you wont to carry in public in NC get and use a CCW.
Heck if open carry is legal you might as well go walking into Wal'Mart with your favorite assualt rifle and let it rife in the kiddy seat of your buggy. Man I'd like to see the look on the casheir's face if someone tried that.
i have never seen an assault rifle in real life.
no one i know owns a machine gun.
I carry all the time when Im doing repo work. In this state you can carry it doesnt say concealed. You can carry as many guns as you want. And can carry a loaded shotgun if you wanted. Or whatever. However if your walking into Walmart with a loaded shotgun some idiot will call the cops on you. There was recently a problem with a cop that tried to tell someone (even though he had a carry permit) that he had to conceal his gun in a walmart or go to jail. The moral of the story is keep it under cover and you will have it when you need it. I honestly quit going to some places like malls and Don pablos restraunts because they ban guns. In my estimation thats like saying "hey nut jobs come in and blow everyone away cus no one will be armed". Also something else to consider if you are legally carrying in the open. Lets say your at Micky D's and some idiot comes in to rob it. If he can see you're armed YOU will become the target. Another thing is if you have a carry permit you cannot act like a cop. That limits a lot of what you can do. Its a pretty big responsibility to carry a gun.
Well when you're going to carry a gun, it should be with common sense... Just because someone calls the cop on a person who is blatantly carrying a shotgun into a walmart doesn't make him an idiot, its what any normal civilian would do by reflex. I wouldn't assume people normally walk around with shotguns and assault rifles, so its not common, therefore, upon seeing something like this, their first thought would probably be, "oh god, hes here to shoot everyone in sight."
People shouldn't even need to carry shotguns and rifles into public places. They cause too much of a public disturbance, they make people paranoid and panic, and its not even worth the hassle you'll be given. If I had a choice, I would much rather carry a concealed handgun to avoid such trouble.
In Scotland, we have a basic offence of "Breach of the Peace" which is used for virtually anytime you may put someone in fear. If you openly carried a firearm or shotgun, these days, it would almost certainly be classified as a Breach if someone complained. So to this end, common sense must apply and one should take reasonable measures such as having your firearm/shotgun in a covered case! Easy.
20 years ago I would have thought nothing of walking through the village, carrying my shotgun on my way to shoot Ducks, geese or rabbits and the local police & public wouldn't have batted an eyelid, going as far as going into the pub on the way home and placing your shotgun in the corner where you could keep an eye on it; technically & legally I could still do that but if some dipstick calls the cops & says they are fearful of my actions, then I may be charged with Breach of the Peace. The laws haven't really changed but peoples attitudes to firearms have so we have to adjust our attitudes as well! So if you must take your AK or rifle into Wallmart or any other shop, it probably makes sense to have it in a case or slip.
I have walked into Wal-Mart (including today) on many occasions while open carrying my GLOCK 27 in a Blackhawk SERPA CQC holster with carbon-fiber applique and never had a negative issue.
Actually, the only time someone really noticed was late one night when I was buying headphones, the clerk in electronics noticed, asked about it, and was genuinely interested in the laws and very receptive to the idea. We chatted about guns and gun laws for 1-2 hours in the middle of the night (24 hour Wally-world).
If you're actually interested in open carry (and I highly recommend it), do check out opencarry.org
Every state has their own twist, in Connecticut you must carry conceiled unless you are in uniform, guard, police, military, it doesn't matter. If anyone sees your pistol and calls the police you will lose your permit.
In Wisconsin, open carry is allowed, but when you get in a vehicle, the pistol must be visible by someone outside the vehicle.
In Vermont, we don't care, we don't distinguish a difference between open carry or conceiled carry.
In Iowa, concealed carry means "On or about your person". It cannot be exposed unless in the field hunting. Then no permit needed. Otherwise, any carrying is considered concealed and needs a permit. Years ago, people would wear a holster on their hip and be legal to carry. Loop hole closed.
You see people walk into stores all the time wearing guns in Arizona. Of course, those are hand guns, not big ol' assault rifles, so that makes a difference.
Thanks for the link.
Different states can have differing interpretations as to what constitutes "open" and "concealed." FL and TX require concealed carry (and both legal with or without permit in car; FL requires firearm to be "securely encased" i.e. in glove box or holster). In TX it's actually an offense to "intentionally" fail to conceal (not sure exactly what that means) and the standard is "not visible through ordinary observation." Point being that the law does vary, so I'd encourage you to check it out for the specific state.
I think Open Carry is great, but personally (not that I really have a choice in TX because they don't allow OC) I'm a fan of CC. Reason being that a BG won't know if people are carrying or not, so everyone gets the crime reduction benefit caused by those carrying. Also, OC tips off a potential BG that YOU'RE carrying. This could be good -- it could keep him/her from committing a crime. But it also makes you more of a target because a BG knows you're a threat.
I've heard this argument time and again and time and again no one has been able to bring forth proof of an incident where a Bad Guy committed a crime and intentionally targeted an OC'er over another citizen.
On the other hand, I've heard many, many stories of "possible" crimes that were averted, such as one where a member over at OCDO (opencarry.org) was just chatting with the clerk in a "kwik-E-mart" type place and two guys walked in, took one look at the pistol (1911 if I recall) on his hip, eyes got wide and they turned and scurried out. No way to tell if they were just anti-indoctrinated to think "guns = bad" or if they were there to commit a crime, but I'm thinking it's more the latter, as the gentleman wasn't acting in an alarming manner.
Also, in WA, we are required to have a CPL to enter a vehicle with a loaded pistol (rifles and shotguns may not be loaded in vehicles, period). Also, we may not enter areas designated "No Minors" (aka 21+) by the WA Liquor Control Board; but, that doesn't prevent us from entering restaurants and "bar and grills" that have under-21 areas. Interestingly, we can legally, and I have, carry concealed at the state capitol.
I'm not arguing, and I can't cite an incident where it's verified that an OCr was targeted over someone else (although you might be able to find examples where a BG targeted a LEO which is essentially the same concept, threat wise as a citizen OCr). It's also tough to quantify crimes thwarted by an OCr because they didn't happen. LIke I said, OC is fine; for me I'd prefer a BG not know one way or another. This gives you the advantage of surprise if a bad situation developed and you, as a threat, would be underestimated (which is a good thing).
We went thru a thrash to get the loaded guns in cars in TX, but it finally worked. The legislature's intent was to allow the guns in cars on the first iteration, but a bunch of lawyers and stupid prosecutors got involved and muddied the waters. The next time thru the legislature made it very clear you can carry (loaded or unloaded) in a car as long as the firearm is concealed, and you're not involved in crime (other than traffic stops) or gang activity.
TX has a "51%" rule when it comes to places that serve alcohol--if the income is over 51% from alcohol (i.e. bar vs. restaurant) you can't carry there. I personally believe that it's bad to restrict a CCW holder from carrying ANYWHERE--this is why we get these shooting gallery bad things happening. Obviously (my opinion) is that if you're carrying, you shouldn't be drinking.