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Which series is becoming the hardest to find?

Discussion in 'Enfield Rifles' started by Laufer, Aug 6, 2010.

  1. Laufer

    Laufer G&G Enthusiast

    Would experienced guys say the #5 "JC", due to fewer numbers, or those which came before the #4?
    Maybe the #4 will be fairly common for a while.

    So many sporterized types at Memphis-area shows is a real shame.

    This is all still somewhat new to me, and don't have any idea whether a roughly equal fraction of each series were sporterized or otherwise 'messed' up.
    Pardon my narrow-mindedness, as I generally only like military rifles, and in the original configurations, other than my classic Savage .22.
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2010
  2. Beerhunter

    Beerhunter G&G Regular

    No.4(T) c.25,000 built vs. c.4,000,000 regular No4s.
  3. Alan De Enfield

    Alan De Enfield G&G Addict

    No5 = 250,000 built
    No1 MkV = 20,000 built
    Enforcer = 767 built
    No7 = 2,500 built
  4. MJ11

    MJ11 G&G Enthusiast

    Indian #4T's are kind of thin too.
  5. spinecracker

    spinecracker G&G Newbie

    Regarding the Enforcer mentioned by Alan de Enfield (taught me more about Enforcers than I am prepared to admit lol), probably only 500 were assembled by Enfield and issued to police forces, and the remaining 270-odd parts and receivers got bought up by other companies (e.g. Charnwood), then assembled. The UK police forces have, to some extent, been active in destroying Enforcers to prevent them from falling into the hands of civilians, I have had quotes of between 160 (from a police armourer) and 250 (board members from other forums) police-issued Enforcers still left. Someone did have a list of 161 Enforcers (the A.M. Steven's Enforcer website), but the list was lost in a computer crash. I almost wept when I heard that.
  6. Alan De Enfield

    Alan De Enfield G&G Addict

    In the Uk we are very limited to the number of guns we can hold (each one must be applied for, and approved by the Police before purchase) Once you get to around 10 or 12 weapons the Police want, steel bars on your windows, burglar alarm connected directly to the Police station. etc, etc.

    So - here is a copy of the list I've been compiling as an aid to 'focus' and use my limited "Firearm Allowance" (the Police one, not financial) to best account.

    No1 MkV Trials. RSAF Enfield manufactured 20,000 rifles.

    No1 MkVI Trials RSAF Enfield manufactured 1000 rifles.

    No4 Trials RSAF manufactured 2500 rifles

    No4Mk1T & Mk1*T. Longbranch manufactured 1000, and Holland & Holland converted 23,000 rifles.

    No5 Mk1 Fazakerly and BSA combined manufacture 250,000+

    No6 Mk1 Lithgow manufactured 100 rifles

    No6 Mk1/1 Lithgow manufactured 100 rifles

    No7Mk1 BSA manufactured 2500 rifles

    Cno7Mk1 Longbranch manufactured 20,000 rifles

    No8 Fazakerly manufactured 15000 and BSA manufactured 2000 rifles

    No9 Parker Hale manufactured 3000 rifles.

    L39A1 RSAF Enfield manufactured 1500 rifles

    (The last Military Enfield) - L42A1 RSAF Enfield manufactured 1000.

    (The last Enfield) – "Enforcer" manufactured by Enfield & Parker Hale. 767 rifles.
  7. Beerhunter

    Beerhunter G&G Regular

    A slight exaggeration there Alan. I don't have any bars on widows and you can't connect Intruder Alarms to Police Stations. (I think that you may mean a monitored alarm.)

    As to the last Enfield - the SA80 Family?

    The last Lee-Enfield - the L59.
  8. Alan De Enfield

    Alan De Enfield G&G Addict

    Not an exaggeration - honest.
    The Local Firearms Officer said if I got above a dozen they would expect additional security of at least bars on the windows of the room in which they were kept. Multiple safes so 'spread the risk' and "alarm connected to the Police Station" (whatever is meant by that - could well be Monitored ???) Having steel lined doors was also mentioned if I wanted additional security.

    It is maybe that we are somewhat isolated, down a single track lane more than half a mile away from a road & with the nearest neighbour being more than a mile away.

    Being a business premises, the previous owners (who did not live on site) did somehow have the alarm connected so that the Police responded within 5 minutes (not a security company, it was the Police) but with so many false alarms it was disconnected. I dont think we have a manned Police Station within 20 minutes of us now anyway.

    You are of course quite correct re the SA80 and the L59 but I guess I did not clearly state the parameters of a "Live firing bolt action Enfield"
  9. Alan De Enfield

    Alan De Enfield G&G Addict

    Mj - Until recently I had two Enforcers but sold one to a guy in Canada.
    They are superb rifles, build quality excellent, shoot well and the Pecar optics are about as good as any of the modern German optics, and, with an estimated 300-350 left, emminently collectable.

    This one sadly has the new home (but selling it enabled me to get a 4T so its not all bad)


  10. Laufer

    Laufer G&G Enthusiast

    You guys provided some interesting and very comprehensive numbers.

    Despite the beauty of living in rural England (not just the Cotswolds, i.e. Stow-, Burton- etc), it is hard to imagine the trouble (Martinet crap) and cost which you guys have to deal with to be gun sportsmen.

    Maybe all of this means that in the US, the very good, but common #4s or less-common #5s might not increase in price more than 5-10% a year from now? Just a wild guess, but can anybody offer an educated projected guess?
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2010
  11. madcratebuilder

    madcratebuilder G&G Newbie

    With the current poor economy here in the US I think prices are down. I keep watch on Gunbroker and what few guns are getting bids are going for less money now than two years ago. The bottom has fallen out of the AR and AK market, down 40-50%. The mil-surps haven't been hit as hard but sales a very slow. It's a buyers market and a good time to find a deal. The older S&W revolver market is still strong, it went up after the election and has maintained price.
  12. MJ11

    MJ11 G&G Enthusiast

    If it's all about market value then you guys have lost my interest. If that's your only motivation try pork bellies.
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2010

    GUNZABLAZIN G&G Evangelist

    I'm not "into" milsurps, and guns for the market, and profits, I buy what I like, what is neat or unique, at as low price as reasonable. Many firearms that I buy won't appreaciate much, and that ok, but I will try to buy some that will gain in value, and that is just a big plus on top of the the fun of buying and shooting old military guns!!!
  14. madcratebuilder

    madcratebuilder G&G Newbie

    If you don't know the market you are just buying blind and a sellers dream. Buying and selling fire arms for profit buys me a lot of ammunition. This hobby can be self supporting to a certain extent.
  15. MJ11

    MJ11 G&G Enthusiast


    That speaks volums about you.
  16. spinecracker

    spinecracker G&G Newbie

    There is another aspect to Lee Enfields - the FTRed rifles. As I am finding, some can be quite rare. If you can find a 1941 Long Branch No.4 Mk.1/2, then I will take my hat off to you (and try to trade you one of my kidneys). I am also just beginning to learn about the FTR program that happened at the BSA factoryin the 1950s, and No.4 Mk1/2s and Mk.1/3s that were converted at BSA do not appear to be as common as the Fazakerley-converted rifles, seeming that they were converted for contracts for foreign countries. Anyone here have BSA-FTRed No.4 Mk1/2s or Mk1/3s? I might see about getting a serial number list going.
  17. madcratebuilder

    madcratebuilder G&G Newbie

    We are both looking for a early LB:machinegun:

    My dream is to find a sportered LB that has not had the metal cut on. I have found two early Savage No4's that way, but the LB still eludes me.

    The only FTR 1/2 or 1/3 No4's I have seen are Faz conversions. A BSA would be a treasure for sure. I have more No4's than I need but I'm always looking for that special one.
  18. spinecracker

    spinecracker G&G Newbie

    Madcrate - I happen to know the whereabouts of a Savage No.4 Mk.1* that underwent an FTR at BSA. They are not common, but I seem to have a knack of finding uncommon Enfields, such as stumbling into 2 1941 Long Branchs in 2 months. My most recent 1941 LB has had the forend, micrometer sight, magazine and some other parts replaced, but the receiver, bolt and barrel are original and have the original finish. The receiver has a very uncommon mark that I think may indicate Indonesian service, but no one knows for sure. I am having to sell it (aaarrgghh!!!!!!) as SHE WHO MUST BE OBEYED is pregnant, and someone has to pay medical bills (woohoo, but oh, BOY!!!)
  19. madcratebuilder

    madcratebuilder G&G Newbie

    CONGRATS on becoming a DAD!

    PM me about the LB, maybe we can work out a deal. A saw your post on the BSA 1/2 rifle. Very rare animal.
  20. Quiks

    Quiks G&G Newbie

    Parker hale bnp 303 No 4 mkI "looking for information"

    Hey guys,

    New to this blog i used to do some hunting but now my guns are parked in a rack! My father-in-law just passed away... left me a (Parker hale bnp 303 No 4 mkI) . On the tip of the gun is Parker hale. Over the breach is stamped BNP 303 2.2222 18.5 tons per. A little down that part is no4 MKI ftr. It's got the flip up distance marker for taking long shots.

    The gun is in great condition. I don't know how much it's worth. Can you guys help me out? Any information would be appreciated.

    Thanks Quiks!

    Attached Files:

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