Why is it???????

Discussion in 'AR15' started by imarangemaster, Oct 2, 2010.

  1. Why is it?????
    Why does everyone love 11.5" barreled ARs WITH A 5.5" flash hider attached? I understand loving them when they are SBRs with a birdcage or a 4" sound/flash moderator. Quite sexy and they make an effective close up SMG.

    BUT with a permanently attached flash hider to make it 16", you are robbing yourself or performance. 11.5 inch ARs do maybe 2700 fps with M193 and 2600 fps with M855 ball. Problem is that fragmentation is not assured until 2700 fps, and rarely at 2600 fps. My M1carbine with SP ammo duplicates that kind of performance easily.

    MY XM clone with a 16" pencil barrel and the birdcage is only 1.25 inches longer and gives about 3100 to 3150 FPS. That is reliable fragmentation from 175 to 200 yards. If you have to have the XM177 look, use a slip over like I did and get that extra 400-450 fps!

    Enquiring minds just want to know. I see tons of them for sale on GB. Mine is a house/farm gun. I know it will work out to 200. Yes, if you use EXPENSIVE 75 grain TAP it may work, but mine works great with M193!
     
  2. Sprout47

    Sprout47 G&G Enthusiast

    I am just guessing that they want the look of a Colt Commando but either don't want the tax stamp or are in a state that SBR's are illegal.

    I have a 14.5" with a permanently attached A2x flash hider welded in place - NY doesn't allow SBR's and I wanted to be able to use sights and zeroes that work with a 14.5" bbl but not really with a 16".

    That's just my take on it ;)
     

  3. True, I understand your point. MIne point is that if they want the look:
    [​IMG]

    Use a 16" with a slip over like I diddd, and don't sacrifice effectiveness for 1.25 inch in overall length.
     
  4. Sprout47

    Sprout47 G&G Enthusiast

    If its not their only one I guess some people just need to have it lol

    Of course there is always the 'different strokes for different folks' theory ;)
     
  5. DaTeacha

    DaTeacha Things are not what they seem. Forum Contributor

    I think all those guys are just closet worshippers of the old Polychoked shotguns.

    For those of you too young to remember such things, a Polychoke is a device that was silversoldered or otherwise attached to the muzzle of your shotgun. Sometimes it had a brake on it, sometimes not. The trick part is that you could screw the adjustment tube down on some fingers, compressing the diameter and effectively putting an infinite number of choke restrictions at your disposal just a twist away.

    My 18" Model 12 has a Lyman choke on it, giving me anything from the original cylinder bore to super full choke. It works well enough that a guy with more skill than me was able to break 20 out of 25 trap birds from 27 yards.
     
  6. In 1973 I had an old Browning Auto-5 that the end of the barrel got shot off when another shotgun fell against it and discharged. Took it to the smith, and he was able to save enough barrel so that when he silver soldered the Poly Choke on it was 18.1 inch. Worked very well, actually. Used it on Dove and duck both!
     
  7. DaTeacha

    DaTeacha Things are not what they seem. Forum Contributor

    I think the brake was a Cutt's Compensator, wasn't it? My Lyman isn't a real huge lump out there, but some of those things are a good 4 inches long with the brake in them.
     
  8. TACAV

    TACAV G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

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    As several others have said, its for the looks,

    As for true SBRs for use other than range work M193 and other specialty loads will do just fine.

    High quality 10.5" builds or 10.3" for that matter (like Noveski) will function just fine. Other less expensive SBRs may require some tweaking. However these really short lengths are were gas piston guns really shine.

    While its true M193 leaves the barrel at frag velocity there are other things to consider as well.

    M193 and other 5.56 rounds even when fired from a very short barrel will still penetrate body armor and then frag and stop without the operator having to worry about missing and having the round penetrate through several walls in a CQB situation as a pistol round fired from a handgun or submachine gun would. The same pistol bullet that would not defeat body armor.

    On a side note, take a look at the LWRCs PSD rifle. Its an 8 inch SBR shooting 6.8 SPC. its awesome with a larger bullet that outshines 5.56 ballistics specifically when shot out of a really short barrel.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2010
  9. DaTeacha

    DaTeacha Things are not what they seem. Forum Contributor

    Highly informative! Thanks a lot.
     
  10. I am not saying that 11.5" ARs are useless by any stretch of the imagination. I understand the reasoning and value of SBRs and Colt AR based SMGs. They are awesome for CQB and as a sub-machine gun for the reasons stated above: Body armor penetration, no over penetration, etc. I'd prefer and SBR to an MP5 any day. I liked the XM177E2 that I carried as a trunk weapon. Since I was a deputy in a rural area, however, I put my 16" CAR-15 SP1 upper on it for more reach.

    My question is WHY the average shooter who can not have an SBR, and is stuck with 16" overall length, would choose an 11.5 with a 5.5 flash hider welded on when they could have the performance a full 16" barrel? As I said, if you want "the look" use a slip over like I did.
     
  11. .22guy

    .22guy G&G Enthusiast

    8,754
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    I guess it's one of those "just because you can" things.

    On a side note, I have 2 shotguns with poly-chokes, they are pretty neat.
     
  12. i wanted the look but didn't want to lose the effectiveness so i bought a 16" barrel and the 5.5" slipover compensator. kept the full barrel and added the look. it added a little bit of weight but not enough to notice.
     
  13. Sprout47

    Sprout47 G&G Enthusiast

    In fairness, the slip-over is close but not an exact look-a-like. Regardless, a 16" barrel with an attachment is >16" - those commando uppers are probably 16.1" with the attachment. So it is minutely shorter and less hassle for someone that was going to put the flash hider on regardless.

    Ballistics are kind of moot - if it is purchased with the intent of being a close-quarter weapon. If it is being purchased with the intent of plugging deer 400m away then obviously a better combo is in store.