Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by Sniper[MI], Oct 1, 2002.

  1. Howdy,

    Yup, the worst thing you can do is harm someones self esteem! These days you can kill someone in cold blood and get less time than someone who kicked a dog or publicly spanked thier kid. But if you make them feel bad........

    "COPENHAGEN, Denmark (Reuters) - When parents are driven mad by badly behaved children, most do not smack them and instead give them a telling-off. But verbal abuse could be as harmful as beating, according to new Danish research.

    Psychologists have long known that children who have been beaten are prone to low self-esteem and insecurity in later life. Little research has been done, though, into the effects of scolding.

    "The feeling of self-respect is hurt when you are punished in one way or another," said Erik Sigsgaard, the researcher into teaching at the Danish Center for Research in Institutions, who carried out the study.

    As part of the study, children at a nursery were observed and interviewed in the 1994-2002 period.

    More than half said they hated to be shouted at and believed the grown-up was still angry with them, even long afterwards.

    The children often felt upset even when parents and teachers did not think they had scolded them, the study showed.

    "You can't say that it's better to scold your child than to beat it. When you punish a child you give it the feeling that it isn't worth anything," Sigsgaard told Reuters.

    One boy said that scolding is when somebody beats you with his voice. Children see little difference between physical and verbal violence, Sigsgaard said.

    Damaged self-esteem, problems in relating to others and forming close relationships are the most common problems faced by abused children.

    Although parental smacking has become less common, and even illegal in some countries, most parents and teachers shout at disobedient children, both in private and in public.

    According to the United Nation's child rights convention, children have the right to protection from physical and psychological violence and abuse.

    Sigsgaard advised parents to tell their children their opinion in a normal voice without shouting.

    "Parents who want to keep a close relation with their children should not scold too much, or they will soon be alone. It's silly because we are pushing away what is dearest to us."

    Sitting your kids down for a love fest is not going to teach them right and wrong, and it is surely not discipline. But discipline is not a savage attack either.

    As a parent with two boys, I see this first hand, did you ever get the look from one of your kids? You know, when you are trying to discipline them and they look at you like, "Ya, what are you gonna do?"

    I do not beat my sons, I barely ever spank them, and if I do it is one slap to thebackside, not the spankings I used to get as a boy.

    And I do not yell excessively. But here is the clincher. After the discipline, I always sit them on my lap and talk with them, very calmly and explain what was wrong with what they did. I always end the session by expressing love and give them a big hug.

    This article has some merit, if only to relay to me that punishment handed out, violently and for it's own sake only serves to make the situation worse.
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2002
  2. wes

    wes Guest

    I asked my Dad once,(who was a DI) why they got in someone's face and yelled at them. He told me it was to make sure they understood what you were telling them.

  3. Oxford

    Oxford G&G Evangelist

    I always thought the DI's did that to reinforce that they were the "alpha dog".(ha)
  4. BenP

    BenP Guest

    I would get beat and yelled at regularly when I was growing up. I lost respect for anyone who lost their temper with me. I didn't go out of my way to provoke them, but occasionally I was rebellious and stupid enough to need forceful redirection. Unfortunately, my parents never learned to separate their anger from correcting my behavior, so they wasted a lot of time and effort trying to train me. Instead, they made me yearn to be apart from them, which we now are permanently.

    What I learned is similar to what Sniper learned. I don't beat my kids. I've paddled their butts in a proper, well organized manner and without showing anger, yet I was thorough about the task. Like him, afterwards we discussed the situation, and always ended on an I love you note. The positive feedback came when the bad behavior ceased and the relationship intensified. I assumed the proper role of paternal leader, with a wife that backed me up. I didn't like being the primary discipline provider, but if I had to do it, I was going to be in full control of the situation, and not reacting emotionally to whatever they did or didn't do or say. I have also yelled at my kids more than once. Sometimes you just need to get their attention quick, fast and in a hurry, and you don't have the luxury of time to explain what their motivation for doing something is. At first it frightened them, but eventually they became conditioned to respond like you would under combat or drill situations. Sometimes you need their undivided and total attention. If using my normal voice to direct them proved ineffective or the threat was too imminent, then yelling seemed appropriate. The japanes call this the Samurai voice, and the spanish language alters to command directive for the same effect. Viene usted aqui become Venga Aca(sp).

    Conversely, my nephew has had little oral and no physical discipline in his life. He has been allowed to criticize and reject the directions and limitations imposed on him. Now he is in counseling, and will like need to be institutionalized because he is anti-social and neurotic. He is not a functional member of our family, and will probably not be one in our community either. His father was prohibited from properly disciplining him, and eventually left due to the frustration. He's missed 4 weeks of school this year so far (out of 5 weeks total) because he throws a fit if his mother becomes insistant. He will have to remediate this term or repeat this grade next year.

    A kid has just got to learn the consequences of his actions before they do him real harm. As parents, it's our job to teach him this lesson to correct errant thinking as well as bad behavior. Young kids only understand cause and effect, their reasoning ability is rather limited. They will learn how to behave only after they are provided structure and control with authority. Take away the authority, they will not learn control.

    Ask most parents who lost their kids due to failure to follow rules, and I bet you most of em would gladly have spanked and yelled if it meant they'd have their children alive with them today.
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2002
  5. Oxford

    Oxford G&G Evangelist

    BenP: I won't make any other comment on this other than to say I believe you're doing what needs to be done. More parents need to follow your example.

    Good luck.


    NRAJOE YOU TALKIN' TO ME!? Forum Contributor

    Well said Ben. My mother used to slap my face and pull my hair when she disiplined me. I grew to hate her very existence and joined the Army when I was 17 just to get away from the screaming and yelling! We never did make amends and she passed away of cancer back in January. She never even tryed to contact me or tell me she was sorry. She was very stubborn and went out the same way. You sound like a good man and parent, wish there were more of you!
  7. Logansdad

    Logansdad Guest

    Joe your Mom sounds like mine...I've got scars all over my body from my loving mother...She can't get past the fact that I didn't marry an Indian or Eskimo girl...She hates the fact that my wife is white
  8. Mandy

    Mandy FREE CITIZEN Forum Contributor

    :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult:

    My parents yelled and beat me often for any reason they felt, It all ended suddenly (the beating), the yelling still goes very often but I know that they're that way and to old to change.
    I love them very much and when they start their thing, I just walk the other way and doesn't pay any attention at all.

    To my young daughter, I've only mildly spanked her twice in 17 years.
    When she does something wrong, I prefer to punish her in a non phisical way like sending her to her room, or not letting her go to a party or similar activity.
    It has worked well for me and she respects me 'cause I talk to her like I talk to a friend, with the truth, even when I knew that she wasn't acepting my point of view but it has never been "Shut up because I say so".

    :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult: :assult:
  9. Mon Bathan

    Mon Bathan Guest

    I go for a simple rule in life, before doing any approach on discipline it is always wise to think about the virtue of "otherness" meaning putting yourself on their shoe. If one sense that the thing he's going to do will hurt, damage, or affect him in ways he cannot tolerate, while he was on the other shoe, then one should start reconsidering his actions, words, or intentions. By then, discipline can be best delivered as one have clearly seen its effect to the receiver.