Interesting

I would have thought a 22" barrel would shoot faster than a 16".

 

Makes me wonder about the ammount of barrel wear on the Savage, or the tolerances it's milled to--perhaps a greater amount of windage.

 

The CZ has around 30k rounds threw it, the Savage has around 4k....

 

What's the twist rate in each??

 

1 in 16

 

Propellant probably stopped burning 19-20" into the barrel? That's my guess.

 

It's generally held that in a .22 LR chambering, a 16 inch barrel most often generates the greatest muzzle velocity...

The following information is from Mark White's book "The Ultimate Ruger 10/22 Manual and User's Guide" . Apparently, he cut a 28 inch barrel two inches at a time and measured for muzzle velocity.

Ruger 77/22; Remington Standard Velocity .22 LR ammunition
Barrel Length/ Velocity
28 1095
26 1107
24 1119
22 1129
20 1138
18 1149
16 1157
14 1149

In the case of iron-sighted match guns, a bloop tube was often used in conjunction with a 16 inch .22 LR barrel.

 

Too many variables left unanswered, the hyper-velocity rounds like Stingers, Velociters, LOVE long barrels, but even so, individual guns can change everything, a 16" barrel on one gun can outperform a 22" barrel on another, regardless of whether it's a 22 Standard velocity or High Velocity or Hyper Velocity round, and the reverse is just as possible.
All depends on the firearm.
But all things being equal a longer barrel is better up to a point. On the .22LR anything over 18 or 20" is a waste, you'll see precious little improvement after that.
Usually. Please don't give me examples of where that's not true and say "Ahaaaaa Gotcha".

 

16 inch is optimal barrel length in 22 lr. You lose 5 to 10 fps per inch in either direction

 

On the .22LR anything over 18 or 20" is a waste, you'll see precious little improvement after that.
Usually. Please don't give me examples of where that's not true and say "Ahaaaaa Gotcha".

Then you're saying that you don't want to hear anything that doesn't agree with what you've posted?

 

Too many variables left unanswered, the hyper-velocity rounds like Stingers, Velociters, LOVE long barrels, but even so, individual guns can change everything, a 16" barrel on one gun can outperform a 22" barrel on another, regardless of whether it's a 22 Standard velocity or High Velocity or Hyper Velocity round, and the reverse is just as possible.
All depends on the firearm.
But all things being equal a longer barrel is better up to a point. On the .22LR anything over 18 or 20" is a waste, you'll see precious little improvement after that.
Usually. Please don't give me examples of where that's not true and say "Ahaaaaa Gotcha".

Actually, I'll twist that another way...
When looking for rimfire precision, you WANT to be below the speed of sound...
WHY? you ask?

Because of the sound barrier...screws up bullet flight ever so slightly.
That's why Target ammo (Standard Velocity) is so darn precise...it never crosses the barrier.
The benefit of longer barrels are that they slow down the bullet a bit on the way out,
which can turn a High Velo round into a Standard Velo round by the time it exits.

This is probably why my old 1913 Marlin 37 w/ 24" barrel makes mincemeat out of other short-barrel carbines using the exact same ammo.
I was rather shocked that the old rascal slaughtered a few of my newer rifles...which led to some changes in my lineup.
I no longer have a 2005 Model 60...still have a 1960 Marlin 99-G w/ 22" barrel & 18-rd tube mag

 

I'm surprised there's not a generally used spread sheet / chart for this stuff already that takes these factors into consideration. It would be just physics theory barring any anomalies that come from harmonic distortion and the moons gravitational pull, etc -in other words, really really basic, but a starting point chart for determining the best ammo for a given application based on the characteristics of the gun, none the less.

 

I'm surprised there's not a generally used spread sheet / chart for this stuff already that takes these factors into consideration. It would be just physics theory barring any anomalies that come from harmonic distortion and the moons gravitational pull, etc -in other words, really really basic, but a starting point chart for determining the best ammo for a given application based on the characteristics of the gun, none the less.

I agree. It would be nice to be able to use a generic chart, but there are too many variables..... from one barrel to another...

is the heat treat a bit different?
was the rifling cut with a new tool, or one near the end of it's life?
are the molecular stresses in the barrel steel "exactly" the same?
is the chamber depth exactly the same?
is the distance between the ogive and the rifling in a chambered round exactly the same?

I guess I'd have to say that I'm much more concerned with accuracy, than a specific muzzle velocity. I have a couple of match rifles with barrel lengths in excess of 27 inches, that will far out shoot any of my 16" barrels, using the same ammunition, regardless of velocity.

I used to converse with a distributor who was able to purchase three Ruger 77/22 rifles right off the assembly line. He mounted the same scope on all three rifles, and shot thousands of rounds through each rifle, in exactly the same manner. Each rifle shot better with a different brand of ammunition. As a whole, rimfires are known for tending to favor a given brand of ammo. When you find out what that favorite is, buy lots of it. :usa2:

 

The solution

I think I have figured it out. Physics say the longer the barrel, the higher the velocity. However, with limited energy one gets limited velocity. The ammo used was only rated for 1070 FPS. If such velocity ammo reaches maximum velocity in 16", the remaining inches of the barrel create friction which slow it down. I'll even say that the 16" barrel was too long for 1070 FPS ammo and that's why the bullets failed to exit the muzzle at 1070 FPS and, instead, at 1055. The ammo probably reached it's advertised 1070 FPS at 15" and the last inch of friction slowed it down. According to our other poster, 1150 FPS ammo appears to approximately match a 16" barrel for required muzzle length. Clayton can test this by firing 1150 FPS ammo. It should exit his muzzle at 1150 FPS. I'm not sure what the margin of error would be on that 1150 FPS (Would 1240 FPS also reach full velocity in a 16" barrel?). But if you jack that bullet speed up to say the 1,600 FPS of a stinger, it's likely that the stinger needs a longer barrel than 16" to reach max velocity. The math suggests a stinger needs a 21" barrel to reach full velocity. Unfortunately, if true, the last inch of my 22" marlin will slow a stinger down. A 20" barrel would probably fire it just as fast even though the stinger exited without reaching full velocity. But it also was never slowed down by extra barrel length friction either. So they tie.

This explains why the CZ Trainer with a 24" barrel doesn't exceed the accuracy of its 16" CZ brothers. The barrel is too long. ALL 22LR's reach full velocity in less than 24". The excess barrel length then slows the bullet down with friction, creating more elevation drop and wind effects.

Anyway, that's my explaination. If Clayton runs some really high speed stuff through both those same barrels, he could/should get a different outcome. Hoever, in theory, any barrel over 20" is a waste on a 22.

And mine is 22".

 

Meh, I dunno. Jay's been around the block awhile, judging from his signature. He's got a match rifle with a 27 inch barrel. They didn't just make stuff like that for $#!+s n' giggles. I find it hard to believe reading that anything over X number of inches is "a waste".
As for the number of variables, well that's just about endless. I cleaned my two babies for the first time tonight (Buck Mark Target rifle & Stevens Favorite) and I pulled so much lead out of them I dunno what to expect my next visit to the range.

 

Twist Rates/Barrel Length/Firearm Wear/ blah blah blah are nice but the fact is one gun will shoot better/faster over another and there's too many variables involved to predict what's gonna happen, you need a chronograph and range test for accuracy to see the truth.
Yes, generally speaking a longer barrel is better when you look at velocity.
Generally.
But there's a gazillion examples of where that's not the case.

 

Well, if you get bored, you can always do a study on Mortars

 

Someone once accused me of being a Mortarman or something crazy like that....

 

A 22 at 500 yds is kinda like artillery. Gotta rainbow it in. The 22 doesn't have enough propellant gas to keep pushing it outside of 16 or so inches. However I'm interested in knowing why anschutz rifles have 20 to 24 inch barrels. Perhaps its something to do with using the extra friction to help maintain similar velocities shot to shot?

Flat based bullets don't do well in the transonic zone. Most bulk high velocity ammo goes subsonic around 75 yds. All match target ammo is sub 1050 fps. If you want proof take your rifles favorite hv ammo out to 100 yds and watch your groups grow. Switch to subs and you will fare better.