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Headspace Info On CETME Rifles...

17K views 13 replies 7 participants last post by  Sprout47  
#1 · (Edited)
I have been seeing a lot of controversy and discussion on the internet and other forums about "Headspace" on CETME Rifles.
Being a Gunsmith , and a CETME owner, I decided to do Research and find out what is correct as far as "Headspacing" this Gun.
When I checked My Rifle , the "Headspace" (Bolt gap) was over the .019 thousandths maximum , by .004 thousandths, But even so, My rifle has always functioned properly. It is my feeling after over 30 years of experience that some battle rifles need to be a bit on the loose side to keep working under dirty or adverse conditions.
I disassembled my rifle , and examined the bolt and carrier , the rollers, The roller bearing surface in the trunnion , and the cocking Mechanism.
I made a discovery in the process , as my bolt closed into battery , the long tube part of the bolt carrier was slamming against the cocking lever , forcing it against the end of the cocking tube. This causes wear and possible metal fatigue,so I decided to remove a small amount of metal from the bolt carrier tube, to give it a few thousandths of clearance. After removing just a small amount of metal from the end , and re-chamfering it both internally and externally, I re-inserted my Bolt and carrier , and discovered that my excess Bolt gap was gone , and now gauged at .011 thousandths , with about a .003 thousandths clearance on the cocking lever when it is in full battery.
I believe this is something that CETME owners should check on their rifles, and correct if necessary. It saved me from buying Oversized rollers and the hassle of changing them out to get a correct tolerance on the bolt / carrier clearance for the Delayed Blowback unocking system to function properly.
The Bolt Spec. Clearance from HK is listed at .004 to .019 and Mine is about in the middle now.
I hope this helps some of you guys with excessive bolt gaps that may be because of Cocking lever interference.

Rich
 
#2 ·
Cetme headspace

From reading a lot of manuals on the G3/HK-Cetme rifle, when the head space decreases (less than .004" ) thats when you need to replace the rollers with oversized ones to opeen up the gap ther by lessning the headspace, in other words more gap less headspace.
the proceedure said to slam the bolt forwaed to close the bolt then pull trigger before checking gap, mine has .011" gap. Al Also Gunsmith
 
#4 ·
I probably should have explained better that there really is no "Headspace" per se , but the bolt gap for the delayed roller unlock system. There are also Undersized rollers as well as Oversized rollers to properly set the Bolt gap on HK / CETME type rifles.
Thanks Enscribe ! And please let me know if after firing several hundred rounds if your bolt gap gets smaller if you would...

Rich
 
#9 ·
I probably should have explained better that there really is no "Headspace" per se , but the bolt gap for the delayed roller unlock system. There are also Undersized rollers as well as Oversized rollers to properly set the Bolt gap on HK / CETME type rifles.
Thanks Enscribe ! And please let me know if after firing several hundred rounds if your bolt gap gets smaller if you would...

Rich
THANK YOU MOOSE! I think your the first person besides me to acknolage this fact. There may be another soul or 2 some place that did as well, but to be honest, I gave up on the cetme forums. Just cought this in the NEW POSTS page. Bolt gab IS NOT true headspace, I don't give a rats tootie what any armours book says. Headspace IS the gab between the base of the cartridge and the bolt face when bolt is locked and ready to fire. And that definition does not change.

You can run a half inch drill 12 inches down your chamber/bore and the bolt gap procedure will still show you as having correct "headspace". And vice versa, you can weld up your chamber so a round will no longer fit in the chamber and still show correct headspace using this bolt gap methode. Checking bolt gap is only part of the procedure. I"m thinking HK's manual is basing its procedures on the presumption that the chamber is still to factory spec, the barrel's position within the trunnion is still to factory spec. etc etc. And with these kits coming in from God knows what kind of condtions and abuses, just checking bolt gap is not enough, it only part of it. You've touched on some with the carrier end clearance, but not all.

I have my own procedure for making sure everything is where its supposed to be on these. And since I'm tired of getting flamed, I keep it to myself now and just plain avoid the hk/cemte forums.

Cetmes are a fun rifle to shoot, and we can all agree on that!!
 
#11 ·
Hi everyone, I am new here and would like to ask a question, I just picked up a new Cetme sporter. It takes a mule team to pull the bolt back. I read on some forum is is due to the bolt or the tube grinding that is done on the rifle. I see there is grinding on the tube, The factory said send it back for repairs. The charging handle does push it back some but not enough to unlock it. How did this ever pass QC? I was looking at used bolt carriers with no grinding for about 35$ Does it need head spacing to change the bolt around? From what i have read I fear a bad deal from the MFG.
 
#12 ·
Send it back. The charging handle being hard to charge is a result of the bolt CARRIER being too short. The gap between the charging handle and end of the bolt carrier is too long, this can only be remedied by getting a new Bolt CARRIER and fitting it yourself. The Charging handle cams open and in doing so releases the rollers from the "locked" position, to do this it must contact the bolt carrier within a couple mm or it won't function properly. You have the opposite problem as Mooseman.

As for QC on a Century Cetme (or any Century product), do your research before you buy and you won't be surprised.
 
#13 ·
Thanks Enscribe ! And please let me know if after firing several hundred rounds if your bolt gap gets smaller if you would...
It shrank to .011 and is holding strong. I still have issues with my Cetme though. It's not consistent so I'm having trouble diagnosing but my rifle is much better off now than when I bought it. I think I have trigger pack issues but I'm not sure.

Boy this thread got resurrected from the depths.
 
#14 ·
Rich do you have photos? I am a little confused as to where the interference is, is it the part of the bolt carrier that goes in the cocking tube?