I don't personally own one but have been around a guy at the gun range that was shooting one. He had some issues with the magazine feeding rounds into the chamber and it kept jamming. I can't say if it was the gun or the guy's fault, just that it wasn't working. He was using factory 12ga loads of 7-1/2 shot in it at the time.

 

I have looked at them in the Vance sales fliers and they do look interesting but I do have questions related to 455rockets post above.
I'll keep reading the reviews and see which one offers consistent performance, durability, and magazine reliability expeced of a trusty home defense weapon.
I do have a Winchester Defender 12ga with the extended tube magazine that I bought back in 86 when I was stationed at Carswell AFB (Ft Worth). You can load a lot of shells in that extended magazine. Never had any issues with this gem.

 

I don't personally own one but have been around a guy at the gun range that was shooting one. He had some issues with the magazine feeding rounds into the chamber and it kept jamming. I can't say if it was the gun or the guy's fault, just that it wasn't working. He was using factory 12ga loads of 7-1/2 shot in it at the time.

They say to use high velocity ammo, especially when new. I also read many reviews that said the aftermarket 10 round magazines were sometimes the problem, not the factory 5 round one. But of course, I would want a bigger one or two also. Thanks.

I have looked at them in the Vance sales fliers and they do look interesting but I do have questions related to 455rockets post above.


I'll keep reading the reviews and see which one offers consistent performance, durability, and magazine reliability expeced of a trusty home defense weapon.
I do have a Winchester Defender 12ga with the extended tube magazine that I bought back in 86 when I was stationed at Carswell AFB (Ft Worth). You can load a lot of shells in that extended magazine. Never had any issues with this gem.
View attachment 230227

I have a several pump guns and they are fine. I also have semi autos, including a 1100. But the ability to hold this one under the armpit, add a laser and or light and never raise it or aim it and never do anything but point the dot and pull the trigger is appealing.

OSI sent me to a gunfighter school provided by a contractor for State, Secret Service, and other programs. I learned the benefits and disadvantages of the pump gun, and of course the fun of short shotguns shooting military grade buckshot for extended periods. Since I cast my own buckshot and reload, I can load them sinfully cheap and shoot as long as I can handle it, and so can grandkids and others. This one is heavy and recoil should be minimal. The reviews do not complain.

The guys who taught close combat with the shotgun were folks with multiple deployments, convoy guards and door kickers, like my SIL, also a retired Command Sgt Major with 3 tours. My grandson did one, same duty. Grandson was Army but assigned to protect Air Force at remote outposts. He did not use shotguns because they were in the mountains, wide open spaces. He carried an M4 and M92.

The weakness of the pump gun is related to having both arms available, you lose the ability to hold a flashlight away from your body and you lose the ability to open a door and toss flash or other grenades while keeping the gun pointed where it needs to be. You lose the ability to talk on your cell phone and reload a pump gun. So, if there was an actual bear attacking--it would matter.

This one, I could tuck under the arm and it just stays there, pointed as it should. Of course, firing it may change that, dunno. I just played with it in the store.

There is also the length. The bull pup design gives you a full 18 inch tube, yet the thing is maneuverable and has no balance issues. It just feels good tucked under the arm or held just above the waist. Just hoping someone on here has one. In reality, the pump gun under my bed with the 19 inch tube works just fine. This one would be more for cheap fun, but practical too.


And my point. A short gun like this would fit easily into my short guitar case, not too suspicious when traveling. Too many gun cases immediately tell you they are gun cases. It is 42 inches, longer than I thought but fits the guitar cases easily.

Midway cannot keep them in stock. They also take the 10 round mags and the 20 round drum, so they are a play toy as well. I could see grandkids burning up a lot of ammo.

Is it better than my 300 BLK pistol? Probably for short range, but it depends on the situation. Buckshot is pretty final pretty quick. I once blew both front legs off of a deer at the knees, I no longer hunt deer with buckshot, that one time convinced me, slugs, sure, just not buckshot, they are for humans who are armed, IMHO.

I read reviews of guys shooting trap with these, really? Oh well.

 

Dad has one but I don't know what brand. It's sort of fun. Probably a good choice for 3 gun competition. An LGS had one and I didn't like the ergonomics; it didn't fit me.

 

I have an Escort Bullpup Pump-Action shotgun. Semi-automatic shotguns with certain features are banned in CT because..democRats. That stated the bullpup shotguns are fun to train with. The shortness of the firearm obviously requires adhearance to strict hand/muzzle control and a firm grip is required on the pump grip during recoil. We generally use light loads when training but when using 00 buck or a slug, these bullpups start to really hit your shoulder hard. I probably will not be as bad with a semi-auto if it is gas operated. They are very portable and are quick on target. I like the fiber optic sight on mine with the rail. Let us know how you like it if you get one.

 

I would prefer one of these in semi-auto, perhaps with a red dot laser attached. But until the budget permits, I'll content myself with my Mossberg 500 ex-police cruiser shotgun with the ghost ring sights. It may be a tad longer than that bullpup and is a 5+1 tube instead of a 10 round detachable magazine, but it fits me. And that counts.

 

Spotted this today.

 

The military/federal short shotgun course I went through used the 870 with a 10 inch tube, pistol grip and fold-over steel stock. We never unfolded the stock or used it at all, defeats the purpose of having a shot gun that fits into an Adidas bag.

Our course or qualification was 18 rounds of 00 Buck, starting at 18 yards and advancing quickly, firing all 18 rounds, I forgot the time, I think 30 seconds. You fired took one step fired a second step, etc until the 18th round you were required to touch the target with the gun for the last round. It was fast and furious and more fun that you can imagine, and ammo was free. To qualify you had to hit every round on the target, however, it was the full size target, not a big deal. Not sure the size but you could not miss if you could shoot at all. The goal was just point and shoot and move and shoot and shoot, 18 times in a 30 seconds. Supposedly your terrorist would not survive that attack. 18 rounds of 00 buck is 162 of those 00 Buck going down range in 30 seconds is pretty annoying if you are on the other end.

We did not have bullpup shotguns back then and the semi autos are devastating and tend to be reliable, and that is what aught my interest. And I can load them cheap, so a fun project if I choose.


Firing with the pistol grip that quick beat up your hand/wrist and the foregrip had a little part that came down to keep your hand from moving forward. I recall getting a blood blister on the front finger once. The course was designed for special operators, so nobody whined, that said, it sure might hurt now.

This video at 15 yards reminded my of the small pattern. These new ones come with 3 chokes, not sure why, my old patrol shotgun, now under the bed was simply open bore, open bore works just fine.

I have an 870 Supermag that I fire 3.5 inch magnum shells in. They are a lot of fun, for about 5 rounds, lol.

I reload slugs and have a mold for the 3/4 and 1 ounce loads. If I get one, the smaller load sounds like one I would develop at maybe 1,150-1,200 fps, I have 10 boxes of factory 00 Buck, that is plenty for the zombie wars.

Thanks for the video.

 

I don't have flash bangs as a civilian, I won't grab a flashlight but could mount one on the barrel. Since it is for home defense and I am familiar with the surroundings and layout of my home, that gives me the advantage. I also do not plan to carry it anywhere beyond my property boundries or a rare range day dedicated to shooting it. Will I eventually get one of these...probably, a semi-auto is appealing considering the cost.

 

The fun factor and cost factor are what caught my attention. We are hoping to buy some land and a range will be the first order of business. I already have a shooting shed planned, 16 foot long x 12 with perhaps a wood stove in one corner and a sitting bench across the rear. Similar to 3 horse barns I have built. 200 yard range with shooting targets placed along the sides for a Hogans Alley event and target positions at 25, 50, 75, 100, 150 and 200. Spinner targets and gongs at 25 and maybe a swinging target mounted on a line between 2 poles. A gun like this could be fun.

Just old men looking to have fun.

 

I'll be honest that I've been impressed by what I've been able to come up with in YouTube.
For the money it does seem like a good decently reliable shotgun.

 

I'll be honest that I've been impressed by what I've been able to come up with in YouTube.
For the money it does seem like a good decently reliable shotgun.

Kind of funny. So many people have heartaches over whether a gun is cast or forged and many demand paying an extra $500 to get something forged.

That said, these are plastic with a little metal for the bolt and barrel. Yet for a home defense gun that your life depends on, we are spending $200-$300 on this plastic thing to defend out home.

That Classic add I posted wants $32 for shipping, so I am shopping around. Nobody needs one of these, they are just a cheap Chinese technology fun thing made in Turkye'.

Reviews are funny. Most say they do not kick or very little, a few say they are brutal. Go figure. You know they make these in 20 gauge and 410. My first look was actually at the 410, I reload for 410 so ammo is cheap.

A typical military grade 12 gauge with 00 buck holds 9 balls at 1,200 fps. A 410 three inch will hold 5 at about 1,200 fps. I shoot the 00 Buckshot with four balls in the Smith and Wesson Governor at about 800 fps, and it is pretty formidable. At 1,200 fps, they should be fun. In the handgun they are good to maybe 25 yards, in this longer 18.5 inch barrel.

If you do the math, five of those 71 grain balls out of this little 410 is pretty formidable, about like a 44 mag handgun.

850 fpe at "50 yards". Not sure about the accuracy or the spread at that range, but certainly plenty of power. My Governor groups the 4 round buckshot at 800 fpe at 14 inches at 50 feet and I can fire 6 of them in 6 seconds. Just saying, even the 410 would have more than any home defense handgun we normally have handy.

This data is for each 00 Buck, so you multiply by 4 or 5 for the 410 and X 9 for the 12 gauge. Think I would like to have both but I am old and need to downsize. Just old men looking to have fun.

 

True it's all about want in many cases not necessarily need. In fact at that price two could be had one shot just enough to check for any possible bugs and another one for practice and personal T&E.

The jump up to the next level for a shotgun would require a jet pack considering the options for "reliability" and that's the Tavor TS-12...nice but I've already got a Benilli M2 12ga tricked out. And I don't need something like that for day to day room clearing.
That costs as much as 5-6 of these.

 

True it's all about want in many cases not necessarily need. In fact at that price two could be had one shot just enough to check for any possible bugs and another one for practice and personal T&E.

The jump up to the next level for a shotgun would require a jet pack considering the options for "reliability" and that's the Tavor TS-12...nice but I've already got a Benilli M2 12ga tricked out. And I don't need something like that for day to day room clearing.
That costs as much as 5-6 of these.

I have been reading the reviews on these for months and looked at them in the stores twice a couple months apart. 99% of folks seem to have no problem once they fire 50 rounds and a couple do not understand the second bolt that you use for magnum loads.

That said, about 99% of them get the 5/5 rating. Now go look at your $2000 guns, not all get 5/5. Different customers I grant you.

But as an old guy who did an MBA degree long ago, 1988, I love watching marketing trends and what we do to justify what we spend. There is a saying, if you do not have a market, create one. I think they did that here.

The words, "you get what you pay for" or "buy once cry once", really do not seem to apply here. These thangs are like Glocks and the original Nylon 22, they just work and they work a very long time.

I can spend $3K on an MP5 which I love, or $300 on one of these, and which one is better for close combat?

Just saying, stuff that works and is cheap, ...just lucky for us old guys.

And yes we buy lots of guns we do not need, like junk food, we do not need. Humans?

 

Update CAUTION on the bullpups. Some of the Bullpups, such as the GForce have an entry level model that comes with only one choke, some are modified, other cylinder, others have 3 chokes..

The warning by G Force is that the model with the Modified choke should never be used with slug, and the others only wit the fixed cylinder choke or the cylinder choke installed on the ones with multiple chokes.

Makes sense but why would they sell a home defense gun like this that is dangerous with slugs?

Additionally, G Force recommends ammo that goes 1,400 fps for the first 150 rounds and then 1,350 fps for all after that.

Other brands have a piston that changes, one for light loads, one for heavy.

My thinking is maybe is it better to pay more and get the one with 2 pistons for light or heavy loads and secondly, get one with removable chokes.

In looking at prices, the cheap ones only have one magazine. Magazines are $20-$25, The come in 5, 10 and a 25 round drum.

FWIW

 

I stopped down to Rural King in Xenia, Ohio and they had several G-Force 12 semi-autos one in Bullpup configuration and several closer to an AR. I didn't like the Bullpup setup at all because I do not always shoulder my shotgun and want the flexability to shoot from waist level...guess what - the ejection port and your forearm have clearance issues. So, after picking up and handling a Bullpup it is off the list for me. Their other model shown below are still on the consideration list, I would add a green laser with a pressue activated switch and what the laser illuminates is where the rounds will hit. However, I would get 3 - 10 round mags and load them 9 / 8 / 8 that covers one 25 round box of shells.

 

Cyrano: Sir; perhaps 🤔

Mossberg 500, 590, 835 (All Years) Shotgun Picatinny Rail

Upgrade your Mossberg shotgun with the durable Picatinny rail from Evolution Gun Works. Compatible with various models, easy installation, and enhanced accessory versatility.

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Mossberg 500, 590, 835 (All Years) Shotgun Picatinny Rail

Ask Questions

 

Cyrano: Sir; perhaps 🤔

Mossberg 500, 590, 835 (All Years) Shotgun Picatinny Rail

Upgrade your Mossberg shotgun with the durable Picatinny rail from Evolution Gun Works. Compatible with various models, easy installation, and enhanced accessory versatility.

egwguns.com

Mossberg 500, 590, 835 (All Years) Shotgun Picatinny Rail

Ask Questions

Thanks for the info. I'm presuming it mounts on top of the receiver? It looks to me like this would require a trip to the gunsmith, though, because I lack the confidence to tap and drill a receiver.

 

Honesly, I don't get out near enough, to shoot and test my equipment. Therefore, I generally save my money up and buy brands I know I can trust. Wish I had more time for the range...there's never enough time is there?

 

I've sold bunches of KelTec's KSG, bullpup, pump-action shotguns. Never a complaint yet.