Slug guns have taken hundreds of thousands of deer across Iowa.

 

when we used to run deer with dogs, shotguns with buckshot were popular. I have never hunted with a shotgun slug because if I wanted a single projectile, I could use a rifle. I have and have seen a lot more wounded and or lost deer when buckshot was more popular. for that reason, I quit using buckshot on deer.

 

If I'm allowed to use a .350 Legend in place of any shotgun, I would rather go that route. I prefer to swing my shotgun on dove. In Iowa, a .350 Legend can be used anytime during GUN seasons a shotgun can be used. A new Savage Axis in .350 Legend is about half the price of a new Savage 220 in 20 ga. Both aforementioned Savages are bolt-action venison-getting tools. It's all about filling the tag.

 

In Ohio we were required to use a shotgun with a single projectile (slug) for most of my hunting career. I used a 1980's Remington 870 with a fully rifled barrel and it was deadly out to 200 yards. From 50 - 100 yards the slug drop was less than 2". I would say that it's more accurate than my Henry 45/70 out to longer ranges.

A majority of my deer have been taken with that gun hunting on the ground in South East Ohio.

It's just too hard for me to see through the iron sights anymore and 870's receivers aren't thick enough for drilling a tapping to install a good sturdy scope mount, or I'd still be using it. And I hate those saddle mounts because they have too much wiggle.

 

There’s nothing wrong with a slug gun, especially the Savage you listed and the Browning A-Bolt. I’m not sure if the Browning’s in production anymore. Both can hit 200yds very easily.

Price is going to be a huge factor, as you said the 350 rifle is much cheaper than the slug gun. Along with that, the slugs themselves can be as much as $5 a piece.

 

.350 Legend in a premium brand like Hornady American Whitetail in 170 gr. is about $1.50 a pop.
Too pricey for a high volume of varmints. Not moose or elk material. It's a purpose-built deer round
for corn belt states.

 

Slug gun Ohio deer

 

When I lived in Ohio I used a Mossberg Model 500 to kill exactly 1 deer. Had to use slugs, buckshot and the use of dogs during the hunt were illegal. Straight walled pistol cartridges started being legal in the late 70's early 80's and the pistol or revolver had a minimum barrel length of 5 inches. I moved out of Ohio before rifles with straight walled cartridges were legal.

I moved to WV in 1998 and can use shotguns with slugs, buckshot is illegal, centerfire rifles using bottleneck cartridges, pistols of either straight wall or bottleneck cartridges, or rimfire with a cartridge of 25 caliber or larger. Hunting deer with dogs is not legal, and if I see deer being chased by dogs, the dogs disappear for some reason.

 

Killed 72 deer with shotguns in NY before they allowed use of rifles never used buckshot by killed a lot of running deer with slug. No different than leading rabbits, house or pheasants. Swing lead fire. Takes a bit of practice. We used to cut a piece of cardboard to fit inside an old tire put a red dot in the center and roll it down a hill for practice with slug guns. In thick cover a shotgun is no hindrance at all. Better than a rifle in thick brush.

 

Yep, yep!
Over my years, when I was not using a 45 colt, a smoke pole or a bow.
12 deer with a smooth bore shotgun, riffled slug. 9 with 12 guage, 2 with a 20 guage. 1 with a single shot 410. No magnum or sabot crap. Remington standard rifled slugs in all.
Killed over 100 coyotes with a shotgun and Buckshot too.
Just got to know how to hunt and stalk, walk in the woods without announcing yourself as a predator..Be wiling to get a few briar or crab apple scratch's. Know when to stop and be still.

Rather have a shotgun or a revolver in heavy brush then anything.

 

Not sure where George got his info but in the 70’s and early 80’s I killed over 20 deer with my Ithica Deerslayer in 20 gauge. Most of them with the 5/8 oz slugs. Put a big enough hole I. The right place and it don’t matter what gun it was shot from. Those deerslayer were one of the most accurate smoothbore shotguns made.

 

Here are two pages of text from George's book, pp. 48-49. They tell a lot about deer hunting with a shotgun, but not more up-to-date stuff:

Most of the gun people, hoping to improve the shotgun as a deer hunting weapon, have concentrated on the ammunition. Only in recent years has there been a conscious effort to build a better shotgun for handling rifled slugs. Two manufacturers, Ithaca and Remington, have shotguns directed at the deer hunting Market. Ithaca led the pack with the development of its Deerslayer which, logically enough, had its birth in the frustrations of a hunter who failed to bag his deer with slugs from an old standard shotgun.

Ed Thompson, head of Ithaca’s service department, told of the neighbor who dropped by one evening with a sad tale of how he thought he had missed the biggest buck had ever seen. He had a shot at the buck at 100 yards right out in the open. He knew, as any shotgun hunter of experience knows, that this was too far for a shot with a slug. But the temptation was great and he lined up on the buck. The buck bounded off and the hunter figured he had scored a clean miss. But he hadn’t.

The following morning he went up to the ridge with his hunting companions to search for the deer. In a fine old stand of pine, they found the 11-point buck down on a bed of needles. He had settled there and never lifted himself. The hunter stood over the magnificent animal and said sadly, “I wish I had missed him clean.” His slug had hit the buck far back and low in the paunch, the kind of shot that often kills a deer but only after sending him so far away that the hunter may never find him.

The fact that this is fairly common among shotgun hunters set Ed Thompson to thinking. He and his neighbor took turn shooting the unhappy hunter’s gun. It consistently shot far to the right of the mark.

It couldn’t get the episode off his mind, and the next morning, he was back in his shop. The company began a project of building the best gun they could design for commercial rifled slugs. After several years of trials and detailed scientific laboratory checking, they came up with their Deerslayer. And test firings by an independent testing laboratory, the Deerslayer, shooting at 100 meters (or 109.4 yards), grouped five slugs in a pattern with a vertical spread of seven inches and a horizontal spread of 4 ¾ inches.

The new shotgun performed equally well in a numerous other tests and has been making a reputation for itself in the field. In Hobart, Oklahoma, the family of radio sports editor Wayne Robison used this gun to bag three deer the very first year they had it. They killed the first one at 75 yards and the other two had slightly more than 100 yards each.

Development of such guns as this and Remington’s special versions of the Model 1100 and the Model 870 pump for slugs gave deer hunters more confidence in the old smoothbore as a big game weapon. One reason for their greater accuracy is the special boring that makes us the entire length of the barrel fit the slug, with none of the usual choke near the muzzle.

Few shotguns are bought for deer only. Its use during the deer season may be a minor part of its annual duties.

There are several styles of shotgun, all of which are used for deer hunting. They can be classified as single and double barrel. Double barrels come in two Styles, the old side-by-side and the over-and-under. Among the single barrels or are the loaders, pump guns, bolt-actions, and break open singles.

The auto loading shotgun utilizes gases from the explosion to eject the empty shell and slide of fresh one into the chamber, all with a single pool of the trigger. The auto loaders commonly offered on the market are made for three or five shells. Some states require plugging them to hold a maximum of three shells for deer hunting.

The pump gun, most popular of all scattering guns, ejects the empty shell when the shooter slides back a lever beneath the breach. The forward motion runs another shell into the chamber. An experience shooter accomplishes this with lightning speed.

Bolt-action shotguns are less expensive than other repeating type shotguns and somewhat slower to use. The old break open single shot is the least complicated, one of the safest, and the least expensive. It’s a good gun for a boy to start with.

If you’re setting forth to purchase a new shotgun especially for deer hunting, choose a single barrel. You can cite more accurately with it then you can with a double barrel using slugs. Double-barrel, side-by-side shotguns have a tendency to cross over in their shooting. The load from the right barrels tend to cross over to the left and the one from the left barrel wanders to the right. If you use a double barrel without some special sighting device, you shoot by guess and instinct. If you’re guessing instinct or good, you may score.

If you’re going to use a shotgun for deer, the problem of gauge is important. Shotguns commonly come in 12, 16, 20, 28, and .410 gauge. You can get rifle slug ammunition in any of these sizes. But not are all suitable deer guns. The only two that should really be used on deer are the 12- and 16-gauge. The 20 gauge is in the doubtful range as far as power and energy are concerned, and if you’re headed for the deer woods the 0.410 is a peashooter that should be left at home. True, you can kill a deer with a .410. You can also kill one with a croquet mallet if you get close enough and smack him in just the right spot often enough.

For comparative purposes take a look at the ballistics figures on various shotgun ammunitions. A 16-gauge, shooting 2 3/4 inch shells, throws a slug having more foot-pounds of energy at 100 yards than a .410, shooting a 2 1/2 inch shell, develops at the muzzle. The .410 develops only 650 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle with its 0.20-ounce slugs. The 20- gauge, developing only, 550 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle, does take a fair number of deer every year. But the slug’s energy dissipates rapidly along its trajectory. Any shot 35 yards is a long one for 20-gauge with rifled slugs.

The 12-gauge, with a muzzle velocity of 1,600 feet per second, develops a walloping 2,485 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle, at 75 yards the slug still rips along with 1,040 foot-pounds of energy. The 16-gauge, only slightly under the 12-, has the same muzzle velocity, using slugs from shells of the same length, and it packs 2,175 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle. The slug in a 16-gauge shell weighs only an eighth of an ounce less than the one-ounce slug from a 12 gauge.

Rifled slugs expand a little when they hit an animal, but from the larger-gauge guns they hit with a smashing impact that, properly placed, will bring down far bigger animals than deer. (Think moose and elk.)

Barrel lengths don’t have a lot to do with how successfully your shotgun will perform for you in the deer woods. In these days of smokeless powder, the shotgun packs about the same power whether its barrel is 26, 28, or 30 inches long. The longer barrel develops somewhat less muzzle blast. The shorter barrel, logically enough, is easier to manipulate in a heavy brush, where a lot of the shotgun deer hunting is done.

Don’t worry about rifled slugs damaging the choke in your shotgun. Like a load of shot, slugs constrict as they pass through the narrower part of the barrel, whether the choke is in the barrel or added in a choke device.

The gun stock should be comfortable to you. Your gun dealer can help you pick one that is. It should swing into place smoothly yet have a stock long enough to keep the recoil from bringing your thumb back against your nose.

What about the gun weight? A light gun with a heavy loads let your shoulder absorb too much of the recoil. But because you won’t shoot very often while deer hunting, recoil isn’t highly important. You don’t want a shotgun so heavy you can’t carry it all day with ease. Strike a happy medium between weight and recoil.

 

Shotgun slugs work well on deer and are about as effective as a rifle. Ballistics nowadays is pretty impressive out beyond 100 yards too. I've never used buckshot on deer but have found buckshot pellets in deer others had shot.

 

The shotgun is a gun control devise. The shotgun restricts the power and more accurate firearms from hunting. The Democrats have controlled what they consider the a military weapon for killing humans?I see the State of Indiana has finally cast off their chains and are using some rifles. The Great State of Ohio needs to only use shotguns for bird hunting.

 

America is the nation of the RIFLEMAN. Yes, too often RIFLE and ARMY are connected.

 

.The 410 fires an 109 grain 41 caliber slug at about 1800 fps, with about 765 ft lbs of energy at the muzzel. About the same as a 10 mm.
I would hardly call that a pea shooter.
The 410 is a viable option for someone who is recoil sensitive.

 

.The 410 fires an 109 grain 41 caliber slug at about 1800 fps, with about 765 ft lbs of energy at the muzzel. About the same as a 10 mm.
I would hardly call that a pea shooter.
The 410 is a viable option for someone who is recoil sensitive.

The latter-day 410 slug guns must be souped up with technologically advanced and rocket-science-engineered ammo for these times. Remember, George's book was published back in the 1980's, mind you. You might find his readings a trifle old-fashioned.

 

Agreed on the 410 slugs, Mole. I’ve sold a lot of them to dads looking to take their kid on their first hunt out of the bow blind.

 

Many weapons and other hunting equipment has advanced in the 1980's since Laycock's book was published. The methods of hunting and scouting deer, current game regs permitting, should be similar. North American animals have not evolved much over 50 years.

 

I grew up in upstate N.Y. (Albany county) and it was shotgun, slugs only when the first deer season was opened shortly after WW 2 until sometime recently. I moved away in 2008 so I'm not sure when they changed it. Using buckshot was against the law, but I knew some that used it anyway. One guy I knew got lucky with just one pellet hitting a buck in the neck and killed it. Nearly everyone used 12 ga. My father had a reputation as an excellent deer hunter in our area. He was the first guy around to mount a scope on his shotgun, doing this in the early 1960's. His friends teased him at first but they soon stopped after the many large bucks he took. He had a Remington 3 shot semi auto, I forget the model (61 maybe?). Every now and then someone would tell me that they saw my father hunting in the woods. They said they knew it was him because of how slow and quietly he moved through the woods. Evidently that was rare back then. Many would put on "drives" with watchers in place. A common practice was to get "extra" tags. A running joke was that my grandmother was the best hunter in the county as her tag was filled every year (she never held a shotgun, let alone hunted). I won a Genesee beer company big buck trophy in 1983 while I was in Central America serving in the Marine Corps. Later when I was home on leave the owner of the bar handed me the trophy and said "that was a helluva shot". I had stopped in to say hello and had no idea that my father had entered my name and filled my tag.
Supposedly the reasoning behind "shotgun only" was population density. I do know that when I was young opening day sounded like we were at war. You could hear shots booming out all day long, and constant in the morning. That changed during the 1980's as the many WW 2 vets that hunted were less and less until there were no more left.
Some think that hunting with a shotgun will make you a better deer hunter. I knew many that hunted but few good hunters. I believe it is all about the individual and his or her mindset.
Sorry to ramble on, the topic brought back a flood of memories.

 

I grew up in upstate N.Y. (Albany county) and it was shotgun, slugs only when the first deer season was opened shortly after WW 2 until sometime recently. I moved away in 2008 so I'm not sure when they changed it. Using buckshot was against the law, but I knew some that used it anyway. One guy I knew got lucky with just one pellet hitting a buck in the neck and killed it. Nearly everyone used 12 ga. My father had a reputation as an excellent deer hunter in our area. He was the first guy around to mount a scope on his shotgun, doing this in the early 1960's. His friends teased him at first but they soon stopped after the many large bucks he took. He had a Remington 3 shot semi auto, I forget the model (61 maybe?). Every now and then someone would tell me that they saw my father hunting in the woods. They said they knew it was him because of how slow and quietly he moved through the woods. Evidently that was rare back then. Many would put on "drives" with watchers in place. A common practice was to get "extra" tags. A running joke was that my grandmother was the best hunter in the county as her tag was filled every year (she never held a shotgun, let alone hunted). I won a Genesee beer company big buck trophy in 1983 while I was in Central America serving in the Marine Corps. Later when I was home on leave the owner of the bar handed me the trophy and said "that was a helluva shot". I had stopped in to say hello and had no idea that my father had entered my name and filled my tag.
Supposedly the reasoning behind "shotgun only" was population density. I do know that when I was young opening day sounded like we were at war. You could hear shots booming out all day long, and constant in the morning. That changed during the 1980's as the many WW 2 vets that hunted were less and less until there were no more left.
Some think that hunting with a shotgun will make you a better deer hunter. I knew many that hunted but few good hunters. I believe it is all about the individual and his or her mindset.
Sorry to ramble on, the topic brought back a flood of memories.

My Teddy Roosevelt era-born granddad even thought a scope silly on a hunting rilfe! He served in the World War II Army where a scope was a common sight system for snipers. He did not think American hunters should be sporting a scope on even a rifle. My dad and granddad both thought "sniping" deer was cheating. My grandfather told me as a little boy, you hunt deer with a rifle and you hunt ducks and birds with a shotgun. Many modern hunting regs spit in the face of old-school American hunting traditions.

 

I believe starting out having to use a shotgun made me a better hunter. Well that and my father who taught me how to still hunt. You had to go slow in order to get closer for a sure shot.

 

If Shakey old me can hold a 6 inch pattern at 100 yards and a 3 inch drop. With my 1988 Remington 870. 20 guage smooth bore, and a slug choke. With Remington 2 3/4 sluggers bought in 1985. Turkey sights Standing. With my poor Eyesight.
I wonder how George is considering 35 yards a long shot for a 20 guage?
Not in my world. With a slug. Maybe a long shot with buck shot but then again I have regularly killed Coyotes at 40 to 50 yards with 20 guage Buck shot.

Last deer I got was a 20 guage right in the boilermaker at 60 yards. And that is with my failing eyesight.
Besides a hundred yard shot is pretty much a thing of mythology in the woods I hunt. Most shots are 30 to 60 yards.Aparently this fellow has never hunted the South East Ohio brush, hills and hollers. Ohio big bucks are not Mule deer either. They are pretty fragile compared to Big game in as much as I would call them medium game.

On that 35 yard statement, And the fact that the author states, he is going by STORIES. I don't give much credit.

Now if I were in NE Ohio,or Michigan. then ye, his statement holds some weight. The Longer shots being available.

In my neck of the woods, ye a rifle would be better, then a shot gun in a clearing. Or on the edge of the woods in a stand situation. Especially with a feeder and a blind with a clear field of sight. But not for the kind of Brush hunting I do.
Now if I am stand or blind hunting over bait Or going into an unknown hunting situation. With a group of other fellows.
Or off the top of a hill under cover with clear shooting lanes. Then ye the 450 Bush master all day.
But when I go creeping down in the familiar dark hallows of Carrol County, Monroe or Belmont counties. By myself. Or early morning after finding the bedding areas a week before, and kicking them out of bed, the first couple days of season.
Taking a lead on a moving deer much like you would a rabbit. Then its 410, 20 or 12 guage with a set of turkey sights. Or even a pistol equals the perfect carry.
Thing is you have to put the time in with what you are shooting, and arm for the situation and retain.

 

My first 10 seasons or so was done with a smooth bore Mossberg 500. Then as I got a little more money to put into the gun I bought a rifled slug barrel & increased my range out to about 150 yds. But as everyone in the area was doing the same thing the amount of deer got less & less, so we were carrying our guns farther & farther, that old Mossberg just got too heavy to pack it that far. So about that time the rules changed to allow straight walled pistol caliber rifles.
A lot of guys switched right away but I saw a loophole that they were also allowing pistols with a .243 or larger dia. to be used, so I picked up a .300 blackout pistol. It was great very light & easy to maneuver through tight woods, my range dropped a little to about 125 yds but I never get a chance at that far to start with.
Now the deer are thinned out to the point I need longer shots or I'm not going to take a shot so I have gone to the 350 legend. They have started allowing high power rifles on private lands so the amount of deer is still dropping & because I don't have access to private lands I'm almost shut out from deer hunting.

 

I killed 4 or 5 deer between 70-95 yards with my 20 gauge deerslayer. But then I used to hunt woodchucks with it in the summers.

 

The American Militia was armed only with the smooth bore musket. The British would fall to the rifle more often after 1767. By 1812 American soldiers and explorers were adopting the rifled barrels. By 1870 the smooth bore military weapons were going into the history books? The American Military continues to up grade their rifled firearms?

 

So the 20 guage slugs I have used since 1985 up till a couple years ago, till I ran out. They had been puting deer in my freezer. And never but maybe once, a shot closer then 40 yards with a 20 guage!!

The many deer I have seen dropped by little ones, with a 410. At least 5, since I started hunting in the 80's. They must have been my imagination. When I was dragging Those up creeks , and up hills. For my young cousins in the 80's. They sure did not feel like they were imaginary.

 

Did some research on George Laycock.
He lived in Cincinnati Ohio. So he would have been hunting the Tri State area.
Kentucky, Lower Michigan, and SW Ohio. Given that knowledge when hunting that area of Kentucky I would rather have a rifle. And as for as shot gun down there ye I would not have wanted a 410, for deer.
Some people's skill with a gun may not allow for them to effectively shoot with a 410. So I will give him that.
So at least I can see where he is coming from. Or at least then was.
But my hunting circumstances are different. As all of ours are. It is important to consider that when walking out the door to go on a hunt.

 

Did some research on George Laycock.
He lived in Cincinnati Ohio. So he would have been hunting the Tri State area.
Kentucky, Lower Michigan, and SW Ohio. Given that knowledge when hunting that area of Kentucky I would rather have a rifle. And as for as shot gun down there ye I would not have wanted a 410, for deer.
Some people's skill with a gun may not allow for them to effectively shoot with a 410. So I will give him that.
So at least I can see where he is coming from. Or at least then was.
But my hunting circumstances are different. As all of ours are. It is important to consider that when walking out the door to go on a hunt.

Mr. Mole:

I did a little digging on Mr. Laycock myself. He died at age 92 back in 2014 and was an American World War 2 Veteran. Bless his soul.

source: Remembering legend George Laycock - Outdoor Writers Association of America

He hunted, fish and was an avid birdwatcher. He authored 50+ books on outdoors.


Longtime OWAA member George Laycock died March 31. He was 92.
Laycock was known as a prolific writer who published more than 50 books and hundreds of magazine articles in publications such as Better Homes and Gardens, Field & Stream, Outdoor Life and Popular Science. He also was a field
editor for Audubon magazine.

He joined OWAA in 1951 and received a Circle of Chiefs award in 1970 and the Excellence in Craft Award in 1983. He continued to support OWAA through the years with generous donations and his time.

“He was truly a pioneer in OWAA,” said Michael Frome, a fellow Chief.

In the golden era of outdoor writing in the 1950s, 60s, 70s and 80s, Laycock wrote a few “me and Joe” hunting and fishing stories, but focused on conservation writing, said Steve Maslowski, whose father Karl Maslowski was a fellow Chief and close friend to Laycock.
Laycock was one of earliest and most influential critics of strip mining and his writing caused changes in legislation to better regulate the practice, Maslowski said. He castigated bad environmental practices, but also championed good ones, such as the expansion of the National Wildlife Refuge system.
He was a quiet man, whose writing spoke for itself.

“George earned his keep by what he did, not how he showcased,” Maslowski said. He was also a man of principles, and never exaggerated or lied, in conversation or in his writing.

“George’s principles served him — and the nation — well, but presented a frighteningly high bar for the likes of me,” Maslowski said.
Yet Laycock was there to encourage and mentor Maslowski and the next generation of outdoor writers. What Maslowski learned from Laycock can still be applied to journalism today.

“George was driven to write, and in writing was driven to point out the truth, wherever it lay,” Maslowski said. “It’s a model for the ages.”
As the oldest Chief, Laycock was still among the most active, said Joel Vance, a fellow Circle of Chiefs recipient. Laycock always stepped up to help with the selection of a new Chief, or pitch in wherever he was needed, Vance said.

Laycock’s work for Audubon stretched decades and his books were varied.
“He was a true giant of conservation and nature writing,” Vance said. Ted Williams worked with Laycock at Audubon.
“Even at that organization, his love and advocacy for wildlife was legend,” Williams said. “When almost all his contemporaries had burned out as writers and fallen silent, George was cranking out great copy.”

Laycock often favored advocating for creatures like snakes, skunks, coyotes, bats and other wildlife unloved and unappreciated by the public. He also kept up on wildlife issues up until near his death, sending so many story ideas Williams had to pass about 95 percent on to other writers.
Rich Patterson, another Circle of Chiefs recipient, didn’t know Laycock well, but remembers reading his books and articles in college.
“He was a legend,” Patterson said.

Chris Madson, also a Chief, met Laycock at a meeting. Madson stole a day to visit the Gettysburg battlefield and when he mentioned it to Laycock the two talked into the night about the time period, the battle and the sacrifices of the soldiers.
“His deep knowledge of the subject, his imagination and enthusiasm were compelling,” Madson said. “He brought those elements to everything he wrote and presented them in a style that was simple, accurate and graceful.”

Laycock was a modest man and great listener, Madson said.

He was a true “gentle man,” quiet, yet confident, said George Harrison, a fellow Chief.

Laycock was a “hybrid,” a dedicated bird watcher who also loved to hunt and fish. He was a writer, and also a photographer, Harrison said.
“I believe that George Laycock was one of OWAA’s best,” he said.

Laycock, a World War II veteran, died in his hometown of Cincinnati. He had three children, five grandchildren and six great-grandchildren.

 

Suffice it to say, if I absolutely had to shotgun for deer I think I would like a Savage 220. I like the "bolt-action-rifle-like" aesthetics. It takes those spendy 20-ga. sabot slugs, I believe, to get the utmost in accuracy and effectiveness within an American football field, end zone to end zone. I think some of those damn things are even about 5 bucks a bang. In Southern hound pushes, I don't know what the ultimate 12-ga. buckshot load might be. I don't think they use slugs for deer that might bound out of the woods on a dog drive. The dogs should be trained and handled to push deer slowly.

 

Sure I unwittingly read some of his stuff. In Outdoor Life.
Used to have a bunch of old copy's I bought at auction.
Wish I still had some of those magazines. A lot of good survival info in there.

 

Wonder if George Laycock is related to Buffalo Bill? Bill Cody's mother was a Laycock.