[runfiverun]

not what how.
did you know 4227 is temperature sensitive and squirrely in the 44 mag even when the temps are not that high?

it's also not slow, 4895 is slow in the 44 mag, AA-1680 is on the verge of too slow in the 44.
too slow as in you can't quite get that last grain in there to make the powder burn efficient.
if you look 1680 is back there next to 4198.
4227 is a good powder in the 30-06 under cast bullets.
it isn't good in the 220 swift with cast or jacketed bullets because it's pressure rise too fast.

what you had going on was not a fault of the amount of powder you were using, what was happening was you moved the bullet then tried igniting the powder.
unlike H-110 which wouldn't have burned, the 4227 did catch and then had to move a stuck bullet.

you DID have high pressure, but not from the under load.
it was from building a pipe bomb.

 

[Jim Bridger]

Elmer Keith the Montana Cowboy and member of the .44 Specialist. The .44 Specialist developed loads using the old Balloon Head brass.
They loaded power house loads seating the bullets out loading to the Max. Problem was the revolvers were often wrecked.
S&W was convinced to build a heat treated frame and cylinder that could hold the pressure. Remington offered a solid head brass cartridge. The rest is history. :usa2:

 

[Jim Bridger]

not what how.
did you know 4227 is temperature sensitive and squirrely in the 44 mag even when the temps are not that high?

it's also not slow, 4895 is slow in the 44 mag, AA-1680 is on the verge of too slow in the 44.
too slow as in you can't quite get that last grain in there to make the powder burn efficient.
if you look 1680 is back there next to 4198.
4227 is a good powder in the 30-06 under cast bullets.
it isn't good in the 220 swift with cast or jacketed bullets because it's pressure rise too fast.

what you had going on was not a fault of the amount of powder you were using, what was happening was you moved the bullet then tried igniting the powder.
unlike H-110 which wouldn't have burned, the 4227 did catch and then had to move a stuck bullet.

you DID have high pressure, but not from the under load.
it was from building a pipe bomb.

Thanks for a very knowledgeable response to these most questionable post. :usa2:

 

[ozarkpugs]

I asked you several questions and you failed to answer even one of them yet you quoted one of the very plausible reasons the " experts" give for Havoc reeking bang I described . In essence you have agreed what I said happened could very easily happen and for that I thank you . I never said IMR 4227 was temp sensitive I did state that on the pistol scale it was slower than H110/296 or 2400 . What has 30/06 loads have to do with 44 mag ? Absolutely nothing . I never said I knew or even leaned towards any of the theories people have come up with and honestly from my work with 6.8 spc v6.8 spc2 chambers and how bullet jump or lack of effects pressure peaks I tend to agree with the theory you quoted . However I am not going to say the people who believe the primer flash going on top of a charge will not greatly effect pressure / burn rate because I don't know , maybe it's a combination of things . As far as this being a 4227 problem I did not say that ,I said I was using IMR 4227 others have similar experiences with other powders in that range with larger cases . I don't recall it being reported to have happened with smaller calibers . What I did was to warn some one with limited knowledge of the difference between 44 sp and 44mg not to load 44 mg to 44sp minimum charge and to stick to the loads listed or he could have problems . I also stated any one who advised any one of not following this advice was an idiot . I listened to such Idiots back then and Thank God no one was hurt . Thanks

not what how.
did you know 4227 is temperature sensitive and squirrely in the 44 mag even when the temps are not that high?

it's also not slow, 4895 is slow in the 44 mag, AA-1680 is on the verge of too slow in the 44.
too slow as in you can't quite get that last grain in there to make the powder burn efficient.
if you look 1680 is back there next to 4198.
4227 is a good powder in the 30-06 under cast bullets.
it isn't good in the 220 swift with cast or jacketed bullets because it's pressure rise too fast.

what you had going on was not a fault of the amount of powder you were using, what was happening was you moved the bullet then tried igniting the powder.
unlike H-110 which wouldn't have burned, the 4227 did catch and then had to move a stuck bullet.

you DID have high pressure, but not from the under load.
it was from building a pipe bomb.

Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk

 

[Jim Bridger]

Thanks for your post informing others with limited knowledge. That is very thoughtful. There are so many of us on this forum who are lucky to have survived years of reloading. It seems you have showed up just in time.

 

[billy]

I kept getting spl and mag cases mixed together and it would make me crazy at the loading bench when one snuck in.
I finally went through my brass and stuck those spl cases far from anything else.
If I want pussycat loads I use magnum brass

 

[billy]

Well, I just set here and primed 100, .44 Special cases. I plan to load 180 gr. Hornady XPT bullets & use "Lil Gun" for powder. I have Unique & Lil Gun on the shelf and load data for both. I will keep an eye on the cylinder fouling issue. never thought about that. Thanks guys.

I've used a LOT of unique over the years

 

[ninwnc]

I took my .44 mag to the range today and fired about 40 rounds through it. I fired the .44 Special rounds I had hand loaded. They were a lot more "Shooter Friendly" than the full power Magnum rounds. My oldest son fired it some too and didn't mind the recoil.

We also fired several rifles from .17 HMR to .308 Winchester. We had a lot of fun and enjoyed an absolutely beautimus day.

 

[TXplt]

There is actually no need to use the .44 Special brass to down load a .44 Mag. The .44 Mag can be down loaded to reasonable levels in .44 Mag brass. The .44 Special brass is too short for the .44 Mag OAL. This "Jump",can cause increased leading in the barrel's forcing cone.
Any .240 grs cast bullet loads with a velocity of 900-1,200 fps is accurate and pleasant in an N-Frame S&W.
My old Mdl 29-2 S&W, has shot many rounds over many years. The .44 Mag can fire the .44 Russian as well as the .44 Special.

View attachment 117436

Unless you have a whole ton of .44 special brass and your dies are set up to reload .44 special that is

 

[TXplt]

8.5 grains of Unique will launch a 245-250 grain lead semi-wadcutter bullet (Lyman 429421) to 949 fps from the long-snouted .44 Magnum kept on hand here. This well satisfies just about all reasonable requirements one may ask of standard handguns ... and a few unreasonable ones as well.

I'm another who just never shoots shorter cases in the Magnums, treating the Magnum revolvers as completely different animals than the .38 Specials and .44 Specials. Nothing wrong with using the shorter cases in the Magnum cylinders, especially if one normally cleans the handgun between each use, but it's too easy to keep things segregated.

I actually use a load very close to this (8.5 grains Universal with 240 grain Keith) in my Model 69 (.44 Magnum) with .44 special brass. It's a very accurate load and pleasant to shoot. And the magnum cylinder/frame has no issue with the hot .44 special.

It's a 3" gun so shooting magnum loads is doable but not a great deal of fun (due to blast and recoil). I figure the Keith at 900-1000 fps will do whatever I might ask of it on the trail with the added bonus of POA always being POI (and being able to practice with the load all day).

 

[BWM243]

GET the bullets that are 170Gr or 180Gr then load with some powder that will let you load very lite loads this will take away most of the re coral and make it fun to shoot Good Luck

 

[Jim Bridger]

Well you live in an area where the only Grizzly Bears are in Zoos. Outdoorsman living and working in Brown Bear domain do not carry a .44 Mag for pleasure. They carry a 4 or 5 inch "literally loaded for bear".

 

[Ten Man]

Well you live in an area where the only Grizzly Bears are in Zoos. Outdoorsman living and working in Brown Bear domain do not carry a .44 Mag for pleasure. They carry a 4 or 5 inch "literally loaded for bear".

Well, for those that DON'T live in "Bear Country" or don't intend to go there, or do live there, but want to practice with a milder load, it is still very pleasurable to shoot reduced loads in the .44 Magnum. The S&W Model 629 5" CLASSIC is my favorite revolver to shoot.

 

[Jim Bridger]

With any handgun practice is about proper control. Will a "Soft Load", shooter control the recoil when faced with an emergency? The model 29 S&W rise and roll right with heavy loads. With reduced loads it only has a small muzzle lift and light roll.

 

[Ten Man]

With any handgun practice is about proper control. Will a "Soft Load", shooter control the recoil when faced with an emergency?....

Not if that is ALL they practice with.

There is something to be said for saving "wear and tear" on your hand gun, especially if it is the only one of that caliber you own.

There are many motor skills that get developed with shooting practice. Tolerating recoil and maintaining control of a high powered hand gun, such as a .44 Magnum (or larger) takes a good amount of hand, wrist, and arm strength. Those can be developed with exercises, and save wear on the gun, as well as reducing ammo cost.

Eventually, though, if one lives long enough, the pounding of full power Magnum loads is just not enjoyable. At that point, it is better to resign oneself to avoiding situations that would require the use of such a hand gun.

 

[ozarkpugs]

Not if that is ALL they practice with.

There is something to be said for saving "wear and tear" on your hand gun, especially if it is the only one of that caliber you own.

There are many motor skills that get developed with shooting practice. Tolerating recoil and maintaining control of a high powered hand gun, such as a .44 Magnum (or larger) takes a good amount of hand, wrist, and arm strength. Those can be developed with exercises, and save wear on the gun, as well as reducing ammo cost.

Eventually, though, if one lives long enough, the pounding of full power Magnum loads is just not enjoyable. At that point, it is better to resign oneself to avoiding situations that would require the use of such a hand gun.

The late great Bill Jordan was a proponent of practicing with light loads to develop and maintain muscle memory , in his book No second place winner " he discussed shooting wax bullets with just the primer for propellant . Back in the '70s I personally witnessed him drawing and shooting full house loads several times and I can attest to the fact he wasn't hampered by the practice . Something I've learned is don't fire your heaviest recoiling loads first or last but work them in somewhere in the middle of your practice session .

Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk

 

[Junction15]

[QUOTE="Jim Bridger, post: 2358708, member: 60794"]Well you live in an area where the only Grizzly Bears are in Zoos. Outdoorsman living and working in Brown Bear domain do not carry a .44 Mag for pleasure. They carry a 4 or 5 inch "literally loaded for bear".[/QUOTE]

While we do have a few black bear and moose, about the most dangerous thing I will likely see around home is an angry mama woodchuck protecting her pups. She won't chase you far but she is fast.
But I do appreciate that there are parts of this country where the wildlife is terminally protective of whatever they figure is theirs. I do carry larger guns when I go fishing in northern Maine.

 

[Jim Bridger]

Never stress a handgun? Would you prefer that your sidearm lives longer than you do?

 

[Ten Man]

...... he discussed shooting wax bullets with just the primer for propellant ........

That was what I did when I was learning to shoot my first S&W 629, in the 1970s. I used shotgun shell primers and wax bullets. They would penetrate two layers of cardboard at 12 feet.

 

[blaster]

when I want to shoot one of my magnums, I shoot full power loads. if I want to shoot light loads, I will use a smaller caliber weapon. I believe in training with what you will use.